The show opens with some musings about the similarities between The Force in Star Wars and the Tao. Later, Dr. Carl Totton disucusses his journey to become a Taoist priest. The show ends with a talk about the concept of immortality in Taoism and a discussion on Chapter 16.
Category: Uncategorized (Page 11 of 12)
After a brief hiatus, Dr. Carl Totton discusses his time at the Taoist Gathering in Oakland, California. Then Dr. Totton and Tod discuss the Three Treasures and Chapter 17 of the Tao Te Ching.
We’re taking a quick break, show 10 will show up in two weeks. Until then, May the Tao be with you!
“When there is no desire,
all things are at peace.” – Lao Tzu
Tod and Dr.Carl Totton
Are there hard-set rules to being a practicing Taoist? What is Pu? What style of governing is most beneficial to the people? These questions and much more are answered on episode nine of What’s This Tao All About?
Tod’s smart phone is driving him nuts so he asks Dr. Carl how to find balance in a world ruled by technology. After missing a chapter last week, Dr. Carl and Tod cover chapter 13 of the Tao Te Ching, a verse dealing with ego. They finish the show with a discussion on chapter 33 that deals with enlightenment, waking up, and embracing change.
Our show opens with Tod reporting back after five weeks of practicing meditation. Is he doing it right? Would he know if he was? Later, Dr. Carl discusses how the teachings of the Tao can help right a world that’s gone out of balance.
The show opens with some thoughts on the nature of the universe: is it friendly or hostile? Later we delve into a discussion of how the concept of god fits into the Taoist philosophy. The show closes with Dr. Carl’s thoughts on Chapter 5 of the Tao Te Ching.
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Episode Transcript
[00:00] [Music]
[00:30] Tod Perry: You’re listening to What’s This Tao All About? A lighthearted look at Taoism, featuring Dr. Carl Totton and Tod Perry. Carl is the founder of the Taoist Institute in North Hollywood, California. Tod Perry knows a little about Taoism and is mainly here because he owns a few microphones. Now, let’s learn: What’s This Tao All About? Let’s see here. So welcome back everybody. Thank you for listening to What’s This Tao All About? Our continuing not struggle but our continuing path to get to return to the heart of the Tao. My name is Tod Perry with me is Dr. Carl Totton. We’re here at the Taoist Institute in North Hollywood, California. And on today’s show we’re gonna we’re gonna tackle the heavy topic of God and how that Relates to Taoism and whether there is a god and Taoism or what the thought on that is. And then later we’re gonna get to a chapter of the Tao Te Ching. See here which one we have today in my notes. We have chapter five and before that just to get everything going. I found a quote the other day on Twitter which I thought was pretty heavy. You know, I want to get your opinion on it. It’s basically it’s I directed 2001, a space Odyssey, which is one of my favorite films. Barry Linden, Ise, Wed, Shut, The Shining, Dr. Strangelove, all these great films and he’s a kind of guy that in all his films there seems to be this big universal grasp. 2001, a space Odyssey might be the most deep, penetrating films, you know, I’ve ever seen and every time I watch it I get something different out of it but there’s a universal conscious. Bye.
[02:30] Tod Perry: I didn’t know. I hadn’t seen it till I watched it. It was like on an HD channel. I watched an HD version for the first time. I was like, what? Nothing looks better than it. And it’s, you know, how old 40 over 40 years old and there’s nothing that looks better than 2001. A space odyssey on the screen. It’s just amazing. But Stanley Kubrick once said, the most terrifying fact about the universe. is not that it is hostile but that it’s indifferent. But if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death, however mutable men may be to make of them, our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light. So it came back to a basic idea of, I think, the average person has some idea on some A level of the universe is hostile, whether they believe it’s a safe place or whether they believe it’s indifferent. And when I read this, I thought I do believe that the world is indifferent. It squashes the good, the bad indiscriminately. When the lava comes down the mountain and wipes out the village, it wipes out everybody in the village. It’s somebody on the African savannah. It doesn’t matter who that person is. Life is just that way. But of course we can navigate it and not necessarily bend it to our will but exist within it in harmony and then increase our chances of survival or its friendliness. Or extract the friendliness out of it, right? So do you believe within the Taoist philosophy that the universe is hostile, good and different? I think the universe just is what it is
[04:30] Dr. Carl Totton: It day by day if something that an individual interprets as beneficial or good did happens, then does that make the universe good? If something negative or they perceive as negative happens, that makes the universe bad or hostile? Or if they’re just kind of going and it doesn’t seem to affect them one way or another, it is the universe neutral. So much is dependent on our perception and so much of our perception, of course, dependent on our senses. Our senses are dependent on what? Our things are internal mindset, we interpret everything. Exactly. It’s very difficult in one respect to really say. So probably neutral is probably the best thing to say. Because that can go either way. And then how we perceive it, how that perception then acts on our life is up to us. One of the things I told people all the time, particularly clients and therapy, I’m a psychologist, is that we like to get to a place in our life, in our head, in our psyche, where our contentment, our happiness is not dependent on our life. What’s happening externally? That’s very difficult for most people. They have good fortune, they feel good. They have bad fortune, they feel bad. I call that being a slave. Being a slave to the external world. Good things happen. We feel okay. Bad things happen. We feel okay. Because we’re okay.
[06:30] Dr. Carl Totton: Little control over what happens out there. Certainly other people, politicians, corporations. How much control do you have over any of that? It’s not zero. Okay. So why should their actions of these external forces affect your contentment? It shouldn’t. But it does every day. And so… And we choose the things that bring us down, right? We are focused determines our
[07:00] Tod Perry: The things we look at and the things we put in front of ourselves because you could probably of highest mind and have a difficult point of this. You could sit and look at a blade of grass and go, that is growing correctly. The universe is good. All this is great. Or you could turn on the news and go, ah!
[07:30] Dr. Carl Totton: And of course most of us have been conditioned to make one choice or another. We’re all creatures of habit. We’re all creatures of habit. In psychology it said that the number one predictor of current and future behavior is past behavior. What people have always thought, believed, done, they will tend to continue thinking, believing and doing. That’s very undouished, however. The Taoist exists in the present moment always. And the present moment is right now just past. Gone forever. Gone forever. Yet we keep clinging to the illusion that what happened a minute ago or a year ago, or 20 or 30 years ago, that that is still dominant and controlling our thinking, our reactions and our behavior. That way we’ll never be fully present in the moment. We’ll be a slave to our own, limiting and imprisoning thoughts, feelings and memories. We have the key. We’re both the prisoner and the jailer. And the purpose of the Tao is to give you the key. You can unlock the cage and just take a deep breath and go wow. And actually begin to rather than be the victim of your fate. So all these things that have been stacked up in the past and conditioned you to think, react, behave in a certain way and instead liberate you to actually source into the future. Into the future. Life goes backwards, life is always pulling us to tomorrow and to the next day and the day after that. So the momentum, the momentum trail needs to be
[09:30] Dr. Carl Totton: Ord, as long as we’re living in the past, we’ll never get there. We’ll never get there. So we want to be the masters, if you will, of our possibilities, rather than the victim of our fate. We want to be sourcing towards destiny, rather than towards the past and fate. Fate-bound realities. You want to be busy being born, as we’ve said previously. He not busy being born is busy dying. Bob Dylan said
[10:00] Tod Perry: So that was happening. You know, I was thinking the beginning of the first chapter of the Tao Te Ching about ever desiring one sees the manifestations ever desirly one sees the source or the you know. I desired an answer from you. Tell me is the universe indifferent? Is it hostile? Is it a safe place? And you did not give me what I wanted to hear.
[10:30] Dr. Carl Totton: I said it is what it is, which probably translates to it being neutral. But it’s more than neutral though. Remember the Tao has been compared to a field. You look at an apparently empty field. And yet what does the Tao do? Continuously it provides it with rain, it provides it with sunlight, it provides it with oxygen, and then out of this apparently empty field abundance of light. A Tao, neutral, positive, look at all the good that it just did right there. But yet, if you look at that reality, if you look at it closely, you’ll see, ooh, that those birds are eating those plants. Ooh, that animal, that bird is eating that worm, didn’t have the right to live. So is it neutral, is it hostile, is it, are it all just part of this big picture of, Be coming and going back. Creation and returning. It’s perfect. So I’d say ultimately the Tao is perfect. It’s perfect. What’s this Tao All About? In the Western concept of God, right? You have, you know, it’s
[12:30] Dr. Carl Totton: A person in charge of everything, created everything, is the mind that brought everything into existence. He’s a kind of a particular fellow that wants you to behave in certain ways. He’s always a man. Oh, well. So he says he, right? Right? That’s kind of the concept of the Western God. It’s Allah or the Old Testament God or the New Testament God. I don’t see how does that play into Taoism. Is there a Taoist concept of God? And something that’s eternal without limitation, the source of all creation. That’s often how people think of as the Tao and starting the sound of an awful lot like God, isn’t it? So even if the traditional, certainly philosophical Taoists don’t posit a man with a beard sitting in a throne somewhere. Oh, Te, they don’t posit that. But they do posit that there certainly is this energy, this consciousness, this thing that we can’t put a word on. So for lack of a better term, they call it the Tao. You know, that encompasses many of the attributes that I think many cultures would ascribe to the notion of God. Right. Right. So is there a, a God or is there
[14:30] Dr. Carl Totton: This nameless, eternal, formless thing that is known that for lack of a better term we just referred to as the Tao. The Tao sees all things as part of itself, it’s beyond distinctions, that’s something that we do and we make distinctions, the Tao doesn’t. And I guess the Western concept of God does make kind of distinctions. It’s separate from itself. It’s something to attain, something to, you know, through good deeds or something, you die and then you ascend to heaven and sit in the throne, right hand of God, left hand of God. You sit somewhere. You will be sitting. And it’s not now, it’s later, you know, it’s after this existence.
[15:30] Tod Perry: And in the Tao of Poob, Benjamin Hof writes that in the Western civilization we’re looking for the Great Reward. Eventually I will make this money and I will find success. I will find favor with the Neeternal God that will then bring me into Heaven and then I’ll be happy. It’s this Tao and the Road thing where is the Tao, it’s boom right here. It’s right now. Right now. See it’s not a separate experience. Because Exist, eternity and infinity. It’s already here and once we transcend the aspects of ourself that prevent us from being one with that, then we will be there too. Right. We’ll be there too. Was it the eldest, huxley, the doors of perception? Yes. You know what? What the full line when… Oh darn it. You do something and then once you break down the doors of perception, all is infinite.
[16:30] Dr. Carl Totton: Yes, you know, it’s what I call a timeless state of Greece. You know, this state of being this itself. And who can ask for more than that? You know, we’re talking I think the last show about how everything manifests as this interconnected field of energy, this quantum field, we are immersed in this quantum field, but how many of us know that? How many of us experience that as an actual reality? And so once we transcend, it’s
[17:00] Tod Perry: I’ve been blinders. Once you move away the blinders, it’s not that you weren’t there. If I put my hand in front of my eyes, I can’t see you. You were always there. I just have to remove the blinders. And then what was always there is just manifest. And that’s the Tao. You’re stripping away to get to that sense. Yeah, we’re removing the separation, the illusion of separation and then returning to That energy can either be created or destroyed. It’s eternal, it’s infinite, it just changes form. It changes shape. Much like the worm to the bird we were talking earlier about the indifferent universe. The worm becomes internalized by the birds. The birds food and then the droppings actually nurture new life, right? We were talking between shows we were talking about something about how to grow a garden. You need manure.
[18:00] Dr. Carl Totton: And so waste becomes the source of new life. Isn’t that a miracle? Waste begets non-waste. Yeah. Right. Talk about returning to the source. Right. See, it makes perfect sense. Yes. It really does. Yeah. You know. So it’s a matter of altering our own perception to be more inclusive. Because most people’s perception is very much like a horse, you know, with blinders on and we only see what’s right We are comparing what we see right in front of us to what we’ve seen in the past or making associations and then creating a label and putting on what’s right in front of us. Now, in the Western mind, you have the idea of heaven. Once if I act according to God’s law, if I accept, I have faith, then eventually I will have this kind of eternal state of bliss after and heaven and playing the harp and hanging out and everything. So, I get my mansion. So, I’m maybe even some virgins. Yeah, depending on which god. Yay, why not? So, that’s what now Tao Te, Ching Taoism doesn’t really have that kind of afterlife, promise or anything like that. No, no. Remember, this field of energy, remember, it can only change shape, you can’t kill it. Yeah, there’s no way to kill anything. Really? It can only change form. And then, like the droppings, it’s gonna become some other form later. And so, I think that the Taoist way, this returning, is returning to where. Remember, I think the last show we were talking about, there’s actually a place in the heart of unity consciousness. Our brains is what does all this separation, of this and that and judging and critiquing and keeping us from fear.
[20:00] Dr. Carl Totton: We’re all feeling our connection to the fullness, the holistic totality of the infinite. Once we let go of that so much and return to this sacred space in the heart and find this place of unity, we’re home. We’re home. We’ve gone to heaven if you will. We’ve found heaven right here in our own immediate experience. And it was just our this separation that was keeping us Really in a type of how? Because separation, almost by definition, leads to conflict, judgment, conflict, killing, death, war, etc. A hellish environment. So I think that if we’re living externally separate from ourselves and from other people, we literally have already created how. And heaven, if you will, is going back to this original state of innocence to this time. I’m a place of eternity that’s returning. It’s returning and the action of the Tao is always returning. Always. Remembering who we, I remember how we say, where do you come from? Who are you? Why are you here and where are you going? Yes. And that’s a remembering process. It’s not something that you have to create so much. You have to let go of the obstacles that keep you from being in touch with your own. And then what’s external to bring what’s internal into external existence so that we’re living our dream. We’re living this internal reality of who we are in the external world. The moment you do that, you are in the flow you are surfing the cosmic wave. You are in the Tao.
[22:00] Tod Perry: Who are in the now and it’s beautiful. Let’s wrap up today’s show and today’s session we did three shows today sitting down here. Let’s wrap up with chapter 5 of the Tao Te Ching. Ah yes. Another interesting chapter. Ha! Kind of provocative if you will. Yeah, I wonder if this is going to relate in me or what we’ve been discussing earlier.
[23:00] Dr. Carl Totton: Surprise. Yeah. Depending on the translation, heaven and earth are ruthless. They see the 10,000 things as dummies. Sometimes translated as straw dogs. Yeah, that’s what I ever had. The wis are ruthless. They see the people as dummies are straw dogs. Oh, the space between heaven and earth is like a bellows. The shape changes but not the form. The more it moves, the more the more the Hord yields more words count less. Hold fast to the center. Hold fast to the center, which of course is the really important part of this. Oh, chapter. That’s the admonition. That’s the answer. Return to the source. Hold fast to the center. The opening, I think it talks about, almost we were talking about the indifferent universe. And at the beginning about how it’s kinda got the Tao doesn’t really play favorites.
[24:00] Tod Perry: And then the people are like straw dogs and I was reading up on that and the straw dogs I guess in ancient times were used for like rituals. You would make dogs of straw and then they were discarded after use. Right. Right. So in the same way, that kind of almost neutral universe of as humanity, you are all disposable. And I think that there’s in one way that’s kind of disturbing and in another way it’s beautiful because it’s let go,
[24:30] Dr. Carl Totton: Sposable, this will all end, so participate. And there’s a sense of unity and equality in that notion as well. You know, whether you’re a king or you’re a popper, the universe, you’re all gonna be breathing the same air, you’re gonna eat whatever you eat and it’s going to break down in your body and provide nourishment for you, and you’re gonna live and you’re going to die. Right? No amount of No amount of lack of money will change that either. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. It’s in different. What do we laugh with though? As a human being in this kind of neutral universe. But yet we’re all interconnected. We all are part of the source. We all have infinite potential. But yet we also have been conditioned. We’ve had experiences. We were born in a certain genetic lineage. You had biological events that formed much of your capacity to think and to feel and to experience and to relate. And it built in some limitations, which of course can be transcendent, but right now, they’re perhaps limitations. You have an external reality, you have parents, you have school, maybe you’ve got the church, maybe you’ve got the intellectuals, if you will.
[26:30] Dr. Carl Totton: up structures and strictures about how you can live your life and yet you’re being asked to find your own way in the midst of all of that. Jumping these hurdles and yin. Jumping the hurdles navigating the course. And so what can the Tao offer us as we navigate our way to this path, this Tao? I think what the Tao has to offer is A way of taking everything that we experience as gris for the mill. Things that look like they are a barrier, very often provide the exact learning experience you need to do something even greater down the road to transcendent. Exactly. And if it wasn’t there, it’s kinda like a knife, right? You need to rub it against a stone. No, the short sharpened it. Don’t we learn through adversity and difficulty? Yes. The worst thing you can do for a child is to give them everything and they never have to do anything. They never have to lift a finger to do anything to help themselves or to learn how to navigate the environment. No skills. The worst thing you can do to a child. What’s the difference between Tao and Lao?
[28:30] Dr. Carl Totton: You used it all the same. You took it in, assimilated it and moved on. You learned so. I always say either you are winning if you will because you’ve learned or you’re learning. You’re winning or you’re learning. You’re not really losing. You’re winning or you’re learning. You’re like that. I like that. And so it’s a new way of looking at obstacles in life, difficulties in life. And none of us knows where we, from whence we came, you know, we don’t know where we hear at some in a different existence, which then put us in a particular position right now, where we needed certain obstacles or challenges in order to grow even further. It’s an opportunity. It’s an actual Tao-given opportunity to grow and to change and to learn. And the fact that it comes around again, it gives us a chance to prove that this time we’ve mastered it. And now we’re ready to learn a different lesson. And if you don’t, it’ll come right back again. The universe is very patient. You screw up a thousand times and it’ll always give you a thousand and one chance.
[30:00] Tod Perry: That’s a nice place to wrap up chapter 5. Do you have a take away for this week that people can do and keep them on the path of the Tao to keep them returning? Remember the curse if you will, the problem, the illness, the disease is separation.
[30:22] Dr. Carl Totton: Leaving things is separate than us. When actually, or as a Chinese say, the universe is a sea of chi, a sea of energy. We are all interconnected, we are entangled as they say in physics. We are entangled in this field of energy. So a great exercise is to walk around and everyone you look at say, you know, that’s me. They look different, but that’s really me. That’s an extension of me. What if you look at a chair or a wall and say, you know, that’s really me. Be and see how seeing everything is being a part of you as opposed to being separate then you how that changes your reality. And changes how you relate to everything. And a great way to do that is to breathe. Because breath, breath is a rhythm. Everything you look at has its own natural energetic rhythm. Whether it’s another person, an animal and insect, the land, a tree, And so as you see this thing is being kind of an extension of me, I’m that tree, I’m that other person. Now let’s see if I can actually breathe with them or it. And see this feeling of connectedness, it will. I guarantee you, then you’ll, your self will kind of disappear a bit and you’ll, uh, right, because you expanded. Yeah. Beyond, you know, the limitations in your brain that made you think This notion of separation. It is the biggest illusion of all. In the entire universe it is the biggest illusion of all. The biggest Maya, right? The biggest Maya. And so if we can transcend that then we don’t hold on so much to our own emotional baggage, our old antiquated ideas about how this is this and this is good and this is bad, this is right, this is wrong. All the things that separate and divide us,
[32:30] Dr. Carl Totton: And instead we see that, you know, we’re all in this together. We’re all just part of the life force. And if we return to the source, the source being this knowledge that we’re really all the same, that we’re all interconnected, life becomes so much easier. It becomes perfect. Just become conscious of it. It becomes beautiful. Beautiful. Because that is the Tao. The Taoist life itself, the Taoist death itself,
[33:00] Tod Perry: Which doesn’t really exist. It’s perfect and it’s beautiful. Thank you Dr. Carl Totton for sitting with me today. My name is Tod Perry and you can we’ll be back next week with more What’s This Tao All About? and have a good one in his Dr. Carl signs off his emails to me May the Tao be with you. To learn more about the show, check us out online at WhatsThisTao.com. Follow the show on Twitter at @WhatsThisTao. Follow Tod Perry on Twitter at @TodAPerry. Now, don’t follow leaders and watch our parking meters. Hey man.
We open the show with a discussion on how to become a practicing Taoist. Later, Dr. Carl and Tod tackle the oh-so important Tao concept of Te. The Te helps put the Tao in action, Dr. Carl discusses how you can make it work for you. We end with a brief talk on chapter four of the Tao Te Ching which helps you find your own cosmic nature.
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Episode Transcript
[00:00] [Music]
[00:30] Tod Perry: You’re listening to What’s This Tao All About? A lighthearted look at Taoism, featuring Dr. Carl Totton and Tod Perry. Carl is the founder of the Taoist Institute in North Hollywood, California. Tod Perry knows a little about Taoism and is mainly here because he owns a few microphones. Now, let’s learn: What’s This Tao All About? Welcome back to What’s This Tao All About. My name is Tod Perry and with me is Sijo, Dr. Carl Totton. We’re here at the Taoist Institute to bring you a little more discussion on the Tao Te Ching. To try to put this mysterious, magical, wonderful thing into exactly what it doesn’t want to be put into words. So, we’re gonna start out here with talking about starting out. So, people who have ventured this Chances are you’re interested in the Tao Te Ching. You’re interested in some kind of practice. Carl, how do you feel how do people start out in kind of being a practicing Taoist or what you know what I’m saying? What’s the people know how to practice like Christianity? You know you kind of go to church, you model the behaviors in the Bible. What would be the way to be a practicing I guess Taoist?
[02:00] Dr. Carl Totton: They’ll be a great answer. You know, people who have read the Tao Te Ching, they were call me, Tex me or come to see me and say, you know, my gosh, I just realized I’ve been a Taoist on my life. Because some things were just resonate within the Taoist perceptions that make sense to them. And so I think that of course, I always advise people to start with the Tao Te Ching. Because that lays The well spring from which so much richness has emerged and I think that even though people may not understand everything in there because understanding of trying and attempting to quote understand is actually part of the problem. But yet the Tao Te Ching throws you into a position of both wanting to understand while realizing the limitations of attempting to understand. And that puzzle meant captivates people. It’s fascinating. And it opens them up because you’re what is this? You have to expand the way you’re thinking or to grasp all of it or attempt to grasp it. Exactly. To try to figure out what’s this Tao All About? Right. And so people say, well the word Tao means the road or the path or the way. The way to what? Well, It’s a way to, you know, they say that the action of the Tao is always to do what to return. Yes. To revert to return to the source. What’s the source? Well, as I frequently say, you know, all of us are here in this world, in this universe, to live a meaning for life. And in order to live a meaning for life, there’s some conditions that help support living a meaning for life.
[04:00] Dr. Carl Totton: Knowledge or experience. What knowledge or experience? Well, most people at some point want to know that what they’re doing is actually something that is important in the context of who they are. So it goes back to who am I really? Where did I come from? Why am I here? Where am I going? What am I doing here? And so part of the Taoist experience is To become quiet enough and synergy enough and stably enough to begin to intuit some of these answers. Nobody can give another human being the answers to those questions. But yet, since each one of us is actually part of the field, this whole field of energy that constitutes the Tao, the answer is embedded in the experience. But it’s not in the words, it’s not, you know, it’s in, Actually having an experience, unpack that a little bit. And lived experience. But what gets in the way of lived experience? Well, most people after a while, they have a job to go to, they have bills to pay, they have responsibilities, they have kids to raise, they have to do things all the time. And in the doing of things all the time, they may have gotten away from something that internally, They might say they’re a heart’s desire, maybe they’ve always known that they were a painter or a musician or a crafts maker or a writer or whatever. Whatever at a deep level they intuit is would really bring joy and happiness and meaning to their life and harmony and harmony balance, but you have to aren’t doing it. They’re busy thinking and doing other things.
[06:00] Dr. Carl Totton: Who have gotten into a profession that they love, the demands of the profession get so specific that all the joy has left. Right, yeah. There’s no fun anymore. You know, you hear the thing. Are we having fun yet? No. We’re not having fun yet. Right. And my teacher, one of my teachers, you know what he said? Number one is fun. Number one is fun. Because if you aren’t engaged in a joyous way We’re missing something. We’re missing something. We’re so busy and we’re missing something. What is that something that we’re missing? That is what the Tao is all about. It’s getting to that something. Getting to that something. It’s different for everybody. But I am convinced that everybody has it. Why? Because everybody is part of the field. Everybody is part of the Tao. The Tao is all that is. And everything that is is what?
[07:00] Tod Perry: Which is both good and of course is brought us some problems. So to practice kind of the Tao is to keep returning to it, almost in your day, returning to that something. Returning to that field and through certain practices, whether they be meditation, contemplation, being quiet, engaging in activities where you kind of turn off your mind and go into the zone. All these things are ways to return
[07:30] Dr. Carl Totton: to the Tao. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. I picked something up here. Yes. The sense of being engaged, you know when you’re really engaged in something that you enjoy, how time just flies. Oh, hours can go by and it feels like five minutes. It’s time for a moment. It’s time for a moment. And it’s been recorded the show and every once in while look down to a time check to figure out, you know, to kind It’s a certain way, yang, we get absorbed in what we’re doing. Music is a wonderful way to do that. Time and literally write some of this down because the things they’re just in are ahead sometime. You know it could kind of come in one ear and go out the other. But if you actually write it down so you can kind of return to it and look at it. And what should you write down? Well, what do you really enjoy most in life? What makes you happy? What you know I said number one is fun. What’s really fun for you. Yeah
[09:00] Tod Perry: Then you can look at that and say, hmm, lmao, You’re gonna be your pro, enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself. Get the most out of it, learn and then impress on. Right. And become the dust. Right. But look forward to it. Exactly. And I find that such a revolutionary thing, especially in the realm of philosophy or religion which takes itself so seriously or everything so sacred. And the Taoism more like, get out there, engage by the ticket, take the ride, have fun
[10:00] Dr. Carl Totton: While you’re doing it and that’s what life is. And it’s so simple and it’s almost like if you were to go up to somebody and go, what’s the meaning of life or how should I be living or what should I be doing? And you go up to them and go, no, no, it’s all about having a good time. Well, that’s not serious. Right? That’s not meaningful, but it is. It’s nothing more When you feel that it just radiates from you and it’s actually contagious. And other people are going wow, why is he having so much fun? What could I do? You know, they equally have fun. Not doing what they do but finding my own path. And Taoism is about helping each individual find their own way, find their own path. Same time understanding that we’re all part of this mix. You know, we’re here to support each other. I think a lot of modern life has become very competitive. Oh yeah. People are competing for a position. Completely. Competing for property, competing for money. Look at the history of the world. It’s a competition for resources. With one group trying to take somebody else’s resources and dominate, manipulate and control other people to get it. But what I don’t know what the truth is. Ch And that has led to gross global instability in terms of the environment, in terms of the ozone, you know, in terms of the basic conditions for life are now kind of teetering in the balance. We’re poisoning the life well.
[12:30] Dr. Carl Totton: It can go either way. It can go either way. And we wanted to go the right way. And so supporting people’s consciousness to make the right decisions that will influence the people who think they are in charge, right, the politicians, the industrialists, you know, these people are supposed to be representing who the people. People really want to have fun, to live a life that’s meaningful and to have peace, to have harmony, to have balance. And if our quote leaders are not providing that and they rarely do. Then I think that’s what leads to so much unhappiness and uncertainty and a sense of being frantic in this world to dance. And the anxiety that that creates. That leads to violence and depression and you know. It leads to both internal imbalance, like you just said, you know, depression, anxiety and external imbalance, you know, calls for invasions, war, just activity, you know, I do know how to use it. I do know how to use it. I do know how to use it. I do know how to use it. I do know how to use it. I This is a struggle and is in this competition with each other from the drums. Yeah. That all is over. Is that a way to live your life? No. You want to spend the next 30, 40, 50 years just doing that? Really? I don’t think so.
[14:30] Tod Perry: The Hollywood, California. Check out the Taoistist Stute.com. See their schedule of classes including Taoist meditation, kung fu and qigong. That’s TaoistInstitute.com. Tell me if I’m wrong here. The character for day is I was reading. It means upright heart or virtue and also combined with left foot which is stepping out. So it’s finding that virtue that one discovers on the on the Tao, on the road, taking that virtue and then putting it in action. So it’s actually not just living a life that’s you know you’re returning to yourself. You’re finding your Tao but also how to put that into the world around us and how to interact with people, and interact with the environment. So it’s kind of the I feel and correct me if I’m wrong. The external practice of the Tao. The motive energy for this act of creation for putting something out there. If you will.
[16:30] Dr. Carl Totton: Not getting anything done or fixing anything or changing anything because you don’t have that energy behind it. So, could the day be kind of that animating energy behind the framework of the doubt? Exactly. Exactly. It’s that energy that allows things to become what they are. Okay. You know, often we might even know kind of what to do or how things should be done, but if we don’t have the mechanism for actually putting it into place, It doesn’t happen. So things remain in this nebulous, unresolved, unmanifested state. So it’s almost like the motivation, the creative force, the creative energy to put it out there in the world. It’s what takes it from the inside and puts it to the outside. And when the outside and the inside connect and are in harmony in balance, ooh, life is good.
[17:30] Tod Perry: That’s when you’ve kicked into the next gear. You have this returning feeling of the Tao where you say to yourself, I want to become a cook or use, in the day, is that thing that puts it into practice. It’s the correctly and with right mind and right order going out to execute this meal you’re going to.
[18:00] Dr. Carl Totton: And the activity of internally picturing, you know, the way that we live as human beings, the way that we live in a sea of images to, you know, in order to do something, you have to see it as possible. You have to have some image, but some picture of whatever it is in your mind. But if it just stays a picture in your mind, it’ll never happen. And then I think this is the key. When you’ve taken what’s inside of you, put it out there as an absolutely attainable reality and then allow that attainable reality, which at some level has already happened in a universe of infinite possibility. It’s actually already happened. And so when we take this picture from the inside and actually Find it outside and then allow that to just draw us into it. That is the day. That is how you actually created. It’s this law of attraction if you will. This law of manifestation. And that’s exactly how it works. But then, another thing is that you have to actually see it, think it as if it has already happened. That’s the key. It’s already happened. How would you feel if it’s already happened? Why’d be excited? I’d be so happy. You gotta feel that. And then how would your body feel? My body would feel really loose and strong and really intact. And when you put that mental and that emotional and that physical all together at the same time and place as you are envisioning this reality as if it’s already happened, bam, it manifests. That’s the day.
[20:00] Tod Perry: So for the people listening at home, they have, they’re kind of figuring out their way, their Tao, and then to put it into action in your mind. And obviously it’s not just wishful thinking. It’s actual action, but when you have in your mind, your desired outcome, and you begin to feel like it’s already happened. It’s going to be easier for you to go out and achieve those things, because you have that confidence, you have
[20:30] Dr. Carl Totton: Relay of life, you’ve got to baton and you’ve got that goal to hit in its fully visualized. Right. And like I said on three levels, it has to be mental, emotional and physical. Okay. All three. And no doubt, it has to be like no doubt that it’s actually real. Because it actually is real. Some are out there. It just has to manifest it real in your life experience. Yeah. Right, that step, leap of faith. But you’re not just jumping into something where you literally have no concept. You’ve taken the inside, externalized it, and then used the external picture to pull you into existence. That is the process of manifestation. One more thing, a lot of people try to do what I just said in their mind, just try to use the mental way of creating it. That does work, but unfortunately because our minds are polarized, what you create, you will also create in these unconscious something that will uncreated. And you’ll get backlash. You’ll get sabotaged somehow. However, if we go to an actual more powerful creative place, the heart, where in Chinese they say the shin, the spirit, lives in the heart. The character for the day was a bright heart or virtue. Yeah, it goes back to the heart. Because the heart unlike the brain is non-polarized. It’s a place of unity consciousness. And it’s pure. And that’s even Christian, isn’t it? The pure of heart shall see God, right? And the beatitudes, all that, right? So if we go to this pure place in the heart and create it from there, and it
[22:30] Dr. Carl Totton: It’s many times more powerful than the one that actually comes off the brain. Actually. So this is the place to actually do the creation. And so if we get in touch with our hearts desire and then let this process of manifestation emerge from there, it’ll happen. Without creating the conditions to sabotage and uncreated at the same time. The polarized brain can help itself. You know, we got right brain, left brain, four brain, back brain, to high We, we, it’s split, it’s separate and therefore we wind up splitting things into many, many different dimensions of experience and that leads to separation. Yeah. And separation is in many respects the problem. So yeah, I’ve been recently trying to kind of start my own because I work as a writer kind of during my normal when I’m not out cultivating the Tao I’m writing at a desk and I’ve been looking towards
[23:30] Tod Perry: Starting my own kind of in-home writing business where I have a bunch of different clients that I write for different things and I’m unlocking myself from the cage of having to be, you know, serve one master or whatever, even though the people work for quite wonderful but did kind of do my own thing. I’m ready for that in life. And so I’ve had this, I’ve had this thing I’ve been working on and I have moments where I think, These moments where I was about just ready to kind of step in but I feel like something’s pulling me back. There’s that weird thing where my heart has been consistent in my desire. My mind sometimes is no, you know what? Play it safe. Don’t go out there, don’t do it. And then late, it’s inconsistent. But my heart, I feel in it, has been consistent the whole way. So there’s a…
[24:30] Dr. Carl Totton: 5% of the time, the heart and mind have not been aligned. So it’s a point of keeping those things or just telling the mind shut up. Do the work. And ultimately what you just said is actually something very profound. Which is that the heart and the mind need to connect. Usually the average person is certainly here in the west, the mind is dominating most of the time. Left brain is pretty much in the boss, right? So now we’re trying to find this whole new way of existing and being getting in touch with this unified consciousness of the heart. Now, the heart has, you might say there’s two heart fields. One is the emotional heart, right? And we’re all familiar with the emotional heart, right? All the passions, the jealousy, the envy, the anger, the fear, right? That, and then we want to be coming from. There’s a deeper place in the heart that’s usually only found in certain types of meditation, by the way. That’s another reason why meditation matters. And so when we find this other place, so called sacred space of the heart, of the tiny space of the heart, it’s an actual physical place in the heart. But we actually have to move to that place and experience that as a real entity, a real It’s like the entire universe is in there. It’s where the Tao resides in every human being. And that’s where we can approach our highest nature and the highest component of all that connects all of us. Because we’re all in the same boat. We’re all in the same universe. We’re all from the El emanating from the same field. Exactly. And so if we can find that place and it’s not that difficult, you just have to know where it is and how to get there. And then turn to the Taoist Institute.
[26:30] Dr. Carl Totton: Our attention up to the brain, really to the pineal gland, if you will, and feel that connection between the heart and the brain. Now they become a single unity, a single unified field. So that the heart and the brain actually are perceiving the same way, maybe for the first time in your lives. Wow. And when you can do that, you’re home free. Wonderful. I think that’s a good place to stop with day. That was very good. I like when we can talk about these things in a non-abstract, I mean it’s abstract in a way but actual… Here are tangible things to do. It’s not just words about that aren’t connected to your personal experience and your personal practice. See everything needs to support everything else. If we’re gonna use words and that we have to, you know, unless we’re telepathic, we’re gonna have to use words right now. Understanding that the word is not the thing that we’re really trying to convey. It’s pointing, right? It’s pointing in that direction, but then we each have to find how that resonates in our own experience. And every individual, that’s your birthright, is to do that. And our job is, It’s to point that out, you know, that you have the capacity to do that. And here’s some tools that might help you. But we can’t walk the journey for you. But we can point to the fact that you have a journey and there’s a path and we will support you when you walk there. You’re not alone. You’re not alone. You’ll never walk alone. We’re all in this together and we know that.
[28:30] Tod Perry: So let’s get on to chapter 4 of the Tao Te Ching. And I think this one from my notes aligns with what we’ve been speaking. I love how, and this isn’t always intentional, how we have a topic, we’ll have a, you know, some things we discuss, in lo and behold we come to the chapter, and the chapter echoes exactly what we’ve been discussing. How about that? Yeah. How about that? Yeah.
[29:00] Dr. Carl Totton: Dr. 4 of the Tao Te Ching I think really concerns the notions of emptiness and infinity. So what does it say? Well, the Tao is an empty vessel. It is used but never filled. All unfathomable source of the 10,000 things. Now I love the 10,000 things is the metaphor for every. Everything in existence. Everything. So that was just a big number back then. Ten thousand. Right, they’re just throwing it out. That’s a lot of things. I mean, they could have said, you know, ten million or ten billion. They do go play. Whatever word you say is a five year old. A trillion. But I like how there’s that child like feeling of the Tao. There’s ten thousand. Yeah. Arbitrary. Yeah. But it’s unfathomable source of 10,000 things. You know, if you go back to the beginning, what’s our beginning as far as we know? The big bang, right? Right. Out of this big bang, everything came into manifestation, into existence. Well, what was before the big bang? Um, we don’t know. What, you know, where did everything come from? Before there was anything, what was there? Some people say there were some kind of few of the energy. We don’t know, we can only hypothesize. But in order for everything to exist, it does seem to have come from a one point, one source. From this one source, everything expanded and contracted.
[31:00] Dr. Carl Totton: Things are opening, things are closing, things are coming, things are going, things are living, things are dying. Even the biggest brightest star will live, glow, blink out eventually. And go down to a hard rock. And that’s what we are. A billion stars exploded, billions of light years ago. This is a monic energy actually went out into space and eventually, coalesced, cooled and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin and yin It is magic, it is a magic, and that’s magic. And the fact that we look like we’re the solid beings, the wall, the chair, the ground. Everything looks solid, it isn’t. It just atoms just floating around in a pool of energy, interconnected energies. Can you imagine if we all looked at each other like that? And we just saw ourselves as these balls of light energy, just glowing and all interconnected? Can you imagine without due to
[32:30] Tod Perry: That’s the truth about what we really are. Yeah, right not that I think the lie we’ve been told or we it was the great line by Yoda in the Empire Strikes Back where he says Master Yoda. Yes Master Yoda says luminous was it luminous beings are we? Yes not this crude matter. Yes. Yeah, it’s it’s amazing. Speaking the truth now if I can only have that in front of me 24 hours a day or you I’m going with my luminous piano, the wife, or you know, that piano. But it’s true. It puts things in perspective, doesn’t it? Yes. Yes. In a major way. And so he goes on to say after that, blunt the sharpness. Talk about arguing. Blunt the sharpness. Untangle the knot, right? Right. Thinking we think ourselves into knots every day, don’t we? Yes. Blunt the sharp I was reading that and I was looking at the emperors and I guess they were saying that emperors were like a Chinese idea of God or the gods that were ruling everything. And in the Tao they’re saying this unfathomable thing is from
[34:00] Dr. Carl Totton: Be on that. You know what I’m saying? It’s that. And to merge with the dust, I guess with some kind of metaphor for death and to almost dance with death. And we’re all cosmic dust. That’s what we are. It’s true. And that’s where we come from. We will return to that. Even the Christian, from ashes to ashes, from dust to dust. There’s so many parallels. I think that at the beginning people observed things and they had experiences and then they tried to codify that somehow by writing it down and then creating some type of system, some sort of structural system. To manage it, to continue to manage the information. It was primitive information management. And then add these things to make sure you adhere to it. You’ll go to hell unless you adhere to it. And the spiritual which then became religious then became the state. Very often became the state. And every state is concerned with what? Power and power. And how can you know, through manipulation, dominance or an. See so what started out as an inside as an understanding. Ending, I think is more into something else. A misunderstanding. Yes. And so I think Lao Tzu, yin, he’s always, it’s like the Tao Tzu Ching is like a mirror. It’s always in a very practical way saying, okay, take a look at yourself. Blunt the sharpness, untangle the knots, soften the glare. Because in our daily existence, we’ve got lots of knots, lots of glare.
[36:00] Dr. Carl Totton: I’m doing everything. And lots of sharpness. Sharp tongues. Oh, just to take a look at our current political debates. Oh my lord. It’s like life has become a reality TV show. I don’t know what the heck happened. I don’t know where everything went wrong. I think Lao Tzu’s way back then. He’s saying he’s illustrating how he’s going to be. All things can go wrong and pointing back to where we need to return in order to feel renewed back to the source. The source of these 10,000 things. Everything has a source. And if you can abide in the source rest in the source, it’s beautiful. It’s beautiful. Because then you feel like you’ve rediscovered yourself. You’ve found yourself. And how many people say that they want to find themselves? Blessed. I wanna find myself. I wanna figure out who am I. And then I think they struggle with that for a while and then they accept some answer, oh you’re this, you’re that. Now go to school, learn this, become that. That’s who you are, that’s what you are. And then when does that one becomes hopefully successful doing that. And then at the end, on their deathbed, people look back and they go, h
[37:30] Tod Perry: One, word of the time go and two, why did I spend all this time doing something that doesn’t and didn’t bring me joy and happiness? Isn’t this man guy? With the businessman guy you’re gonna have certain values and morals and adhere to those or you can go out and you can be the hippie guy and have these values and morals. You can be some compet- you know, you could be the- you know, there’s all these prescribed archetypes of people that- people are trying to fit themselves into. I find it to myself many times and I try to get out of that. So as we wrap up today, do we have a good solid takeaway or something that people can do to enact their day or you know. Well, there’s always so many things, it’s a matter of just trying to come up with something that’s simple and obtainable, and it’s a very good idea to do it.
[39:00] Dr. Carl Totton: So, and easy to do. If it isn’t easy people aren’t gonna do it. And so I always think it has to be easy. So, one of the meditations I like to do is to think about visualizing all of your dreams. What is your ultimate heart’s desire? Think about that as a dream. And actually see, by the way, when you go to sleep at night, With this, it’s almost like having a word at the tip of your tongue. You want to have this image of this dream of what you really want most in your life, right at the tip of your consciousness and then fall into a dream state and see where that takes you. Because one of the keys I’m convinced is to not have such a divide between our conscious and our subconscious. How do you take that down? Wow! And you can control and play within that. You can play. You talk about fun. Oh my goodness. You will be ecstatic. All night and then all day. Because ultimately you’ll come to realize it’s all a dream. Alright am I a man dreaming he’s a butterfly? Am I a butterfly dreaming he’s a man?
[41:00] Tod Perry: I think we’ll leave with that, I think that’s a perfect note to end on. See, Joe, Dr. Carl Totton, thank you so much for joining me here today. Thank you. Alright. Perion Twitter, ah, @TodAPerry. Now, don’t follow leaders and watch your parking meters.
[42:00] [Music]
We open the show speculating whether some of the greatest minds of the last century were secretly Taoists. Later, Dr. Totton teaches the basics of starting a meditation practice, and we end with a breakdown of Chapter Three of the Tao Te Ching.
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Episode Transcript
[00:00] [Music]
[00:30] Tod Perry: You’re listening to What’s This Tao All About? A lighthearted look at Taoism, featuring Dr. Carl Totton and Tod Perry. Carl is the founder of the Taoist Institute in North Hollywood, California. Tod Perry knows a little about Taoism and is mainly here because he owns a few microphones. Now, let’s learn: What’s This Tao All About? Hello everybody and welcome back to What’s This Tao All About? My name is Tod Perry and here is Dr. Carl Totton, Sijo and we’re gonna continue our discussion on the Tao Te Ching today. What we’re gonna talk about our big stuff is chapter 3 of the Tao Te Ching and we’re gonna talk about meditation a bit and we’re gonna open up a little bit. I’m gonna discuss some people throughout history that might have been seen Crit Taoists, some people who have said things that are, I think in line with the Tao, kind of quotes I’ve liked throughout my life. So I’m gonna run these by Carl and see what you think. Excellent. Alright, one of my first things is, it’s a George Bernard Shaw once said that life is not about finding yourself, it’s about creating yourself. Now is that, is that with the Tao? Because the Tao is a lot about finding
[02:00] Dr. Carl Totton: And so the art of finding verses creating, you know, building on to something, not sure. Yeah, you know in a way, it’s like a different way of saying something else. As so much is Tao. Tao, a lot of it has to do with discovering, uncovering what’s already there. Right. And then when you allow that to just manifest naturally to flow and And goes with the flow. Then one is at one with the process of ongoing discovery and creation. And so it’s not in the sense that we are thinking about something and planning it and then experimenting and trying this and trying that and creating something in that manner. It’s a way of uncovering something that has already been laid down. But because we’ve been so busy thinking Planning and scheming and manipulating, we lost it, we didn’t see it. It’s also like the act of creation and destruction is kind of simultaneous. Right? Yeah. And the Tao, everything is both being created, if you will, and being uncreated at the same time. Right. No. No. Every time anything is said or done, it’s there for that moment and then it’s gone. Right. Yeah. It’s gone, wu, where did it go? It’s gone, it happened. It’s like, quick, quick, too late, too late. It’s like, uh, it’s with the Dutch boy with the the wall and there’s a leak in the wall and he puts his finger in the wall and put his finger in the other one and then the other side of the water is coming through and this is not enough fingers and hands to, but that
[04:00] Dr. Carl Totton: Just let it be because if it leaks what we will also do, oh, the water all of the crops and then everybody will be fed. And so sometimes things have to allow space for things to happen and at the same time be mindful that there might be a plan. You might be a bigger picture. And too often, almost always we see things from what position our own narrow perspective. Almost every human being does that.
[04:30] Tod Perry: Unless we actively do something like meditation to counteract that and try to go on to bigger things. We’re gonna get to that in a minute. Meditation. Another great quote I’ve always liked is, life has become immeasurably better once I’ve been forced to stop taking it seriously. By Dr. Hunter S. Thompson. But I like reading Hunter S. Thompson’s work. And it’s very true that I every once in a while I look up around I go, you know, why am I taking life so serious when, you know, it’s fleeting, it’s going to go. I’ll be gone, I’ll be with the dust at a certain point or everything around this that I’m attached to. Life is a joyous experience and not to get too pulled down into the weeds and not
[05:30] Dr. Carl Totton: Walk through it with such heavy feet, I guess. Yes. Every moment is here for just the second. Then it’s gone forever. It’s gone forever. And yet what do we do? We try to cling to those moments. Like it’s a life raft or something. That’s somehow gonna save us. The cling to what happened just the second ago. Our job is to be fully present every moment and then let it go. Why? So that we can welcome
[06:00] Tod Perry: You’re a kid and you’re at like Disneyland or whatever. The whole day like this is just the best perfectest thing ever. And then you have that weird moment where you go, oh no, I’m gonna have to leave Disneyland. And then you don’t enjoy anything. It’s like on Sunday you go, oh I got work tomorrow. I’m at this we’re doing Sunday right now. I might have just ruined my day. But you know, oh man Is the nature of the Tao.
[07:00] Dr. Carl Totton: Something on a previous show we were discussing, I was saying to you, do you think that most people are walking around concerned with the bigger questions of life or asking what why they’re here or the meaning? And I was like, I’m sure people are just not talking about it and you said, no, no, maybe lots of people just kind of aren’t. You know? I agree, I think most people are just busy living their lives. Yeah. But unfortunately
[07:30] Tod Perry: Clinging to moments and trying to create or extend or just adjust or adapt to something that they miss the bigger picture. And often, the old saying you can’t see the forest for the trees are only too true. I found this great, it was like this sheet of notes by the jazz player, Thelonious Monk. Oh yes. And he had this whole thing of notes that he wrote for himself. It was almost like to reflect, you know, to Put himself in the zone when he’s playing music or you know just kind of true you know the true things he learned in life. And one thing he wrote was the inside part of the tune, the bridge you know your big change in the middle of the song is the part that makes the outside sound good. So if he puts in a big a big change in the middle of the song that takes you out of the your normal verse chorus it’s by going way out there The rest of the song then sounds fresh. Yes. It’s almost like I went to Hawaii a few weeks ago and the fact that I got out of my element, I took it way out there and I went to another place, different frame of mind. I came back and I
[08:50] Dr. Carl Totton: appreciated my normal everyday life. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Often by going to the extremes, we absolutely learn to appreciate what we have here in the moment It gives us that sense of dimensionality that makes life seem richer. Right. Yeah. And also by contrast, here in a third dimensional world, in a world that is framed by yin and yang, if you will. It’s by exploring the things that look like their opposites of each other that we come to find the totality of our experience. Ultimately it’s really all one whole existence. We see the forest from the trees. Right. But most human beings, most of us can’t do that type of just being one with the flow and integrating all of the extremes simultaneously, moment by moment without clinging or holding on, few people can really do that. Yeah, no. You would probably become schizophrenic or either that or sage.
[10:00] Tod Perry: What’s This Tao All About? is recorded at the Taoist Institute in North Hollywood, California. Check out the TaoistInstitute.com. See there’s schedule of classes including Taoist meditation, kung fu and qigong. That’s TaoistInstitute.com. Alright, so let’s get into this here. Let’s talk a little bit about meditation. And I know you teach meditation classes right here at the Taoist Institute. Oh, yes. Now my big question is I’ve, I’ve, from time to time sat and attempted to meditate. I’ve had a couple positive experiences with it. I haven’t integrated into my daily life. And, and one of the questions I always have is, I feel like there’s different forms of meditation, right? And different ones like there’s like transcendental meditation and you gotta pay 1500 bucks to learn it. And I always go, is that a scam or is it, you know, why don’t they just make this available to everybody? You know, why don’t they reveal their secret, you know?
[11:30] Dr. Carl Totton: You want? Oh great, yeah. That’s awesome. Just on tell anyone. Yeah. Our little secret. This is how publicly now come. So is there a better way in order to say what is the difference in the different forms of meditation, if you will? Or is it just all the same thing that people are calling different? No, it is an all just the same thing. People have been trying to kind of solve this riddle about who am I, And where am I going? In other words, what is the meaning of life? And almost everyone, sooner or later comes to the realization that all of this doing and trying and thinking and thinking and overthinking is taking me away from realizing this essence of what is the meaning of my life. And so sooner or later, people around the world for thousands of years have realized that unless I sit quietly And so all cultures and peoples and spiritual groups have at one point or another come to the realization that they have to alter something about what they’ve been doing. It’s in the doing and overdoing and overthinking while overdoing where we get lost. So I think that ultimately meditation is really a very natural state. It’s what happens before we start doing. It’s what happens before we start talking and thinking. And our thinking of course is always in what? Words, right? And words as we know, words are a representation of something, they’re not the thing. And so meditation is to try to get to the thing.
[13:30] Dr. Carl Totton: And so if you’re talking and thinking too much, it’s going to be very difficult to realize the nature of what underlies our existence. And so that’s what meditation is for. Now, there are 100 ways about knowing more than that, a thousand ways to actually try to do that. Essentially, meditation can be divided in general into active forms of meditation and more Past of forms of meditation. Act of forms of meditation, you do something. Maybe you chant something. Maybe you focus on something. It might be something even very peaceful like focusing on a cloud drifting across the sky or a river flowing down the stream. But so something grabs your attention and as something grabs our attention and we begin to follow that, track that, guess what happens? As that immersion increases the internal chatter that self-talk does to decrease. I could use that. Yes, we can all use that. So that’s actually very useful. So that’s active. That’s active meditation. Because you’re doing something in order to decrease our attachment to what we usually do. Which is doing and thinking and planning and on and on and on. Okay. What’s your…it’s actually probably more difficult. You know, is it more rewarding because it’s more difficult? Not necessarily. You know what they say? All roads lead to Beijing or Hong Kong or Rome or someplace, right? So, however one gets there, it’s fine. As long as you get…again, return to the source. Okay. So passive forms of meditation, it’s more difficult because sometimes people will tell you what, I’m sure
[15:30] Dr. Carl Totton: of nothing but who can do that? I’ve thought of nothing like four times in my life. And then I go, I’m thinking about nothing. Right. And so typically what is easier for people is to think about something different than what they ordinarily are thinking about. So again, it might be a word, it might be a breath. You know what I tell people to do? What’s going on in your mind right now? Oh, okay, that’s interesting. Now, look at that. Watch those thoughts. And while you’re watching those thoughts, what’s going on in your body right now? Notice that too. Don’t think about it. Just notice it. Oh, how about your breath? You notice that? Oh, okay, just notice that. So, as you sit here and you’re noticing your mind and you’re noticing your body and you’re noticing your breath, what part I don’t know. Great. Now, just stay with that experience and just see where that takes you. And now I’ll put on some nice music. I’ll turn out the lights. I have a black light here. I’ll put on black light and it looks kind of mysterious and kind of kind of, no it’s really soft in there. And what happens is that people get so engaged in this exercise and really mindfulness. You know, being able to not be In your body, in your breath, but rather coming from a place where you are all of these things simultaneously without having to divide and separate them. At that moment, an amazing thing happens. We stop thinking. You might realize, I know this has happened to you. Haven’t you been driving sometimes on the freeway and you noticed that, gosh, I just drove the last
[17:30] Dr. Carl Totton: 10 miles and I didn’t have one thought in my mind about driving. Yes. It’s the same thing in meditation. How did I get here? How did I get here? Why am I in the valley? Like I was in the valley. I switched lanes, I avoided cars obviously, I drove the speed limit, I wasn’t bumping into people, I didn’t drive off the road and I did not have one thought about driving. The same thing happens in
[18:00] Tod Perry: You can just be. Right. It’s beautiful. So, about let’s see. So if I wanted to kind of start going towards that place, just by myself, at my house, you know, maybe woke up in the morning, had a cup of coffee, and then I get ready to go to work and I want to take this 20 minutes to get to that state. What are the kind of real simple ways to get into that? I always talk people,
[18:30] Dr. Carl Totton: Natural state. I think a lot of what we do and say and think all the time is really quite unnatural. Okay. Alright. And so there’s something that pervades that, that’s beneath that and above that and beyond all of that. Something that just is. Right. And so the easiest way. That’s the easiest way. You know, my teacher taught me when I, the first day of meditation, my Taoist teacher, he said, just said and Observe your breathing. Feel the air come in. Feel the air come out. Just notice that. Just watch that. And as I watch that and then began to just watch my thoughts and watch my body. Maybe I had some imagery in my mind. Maybe I was remembering something and event. Do you try to then stop that or do you just let it play out? You just watch it. You just observe it. You don’t participate in it. You just let And now you’re back to square one. You’re out of it. You’re out of it because you’re too into it. Right. Okay. So it’s a matter of this. It’s interesting because on one hand, people always say that to meditate, you have to do what? You have to focus. You have to concentrate. You hear that all the time. It’s a brilliant experience. And when that will kill meditation
[20:00] Tod Perry: Cold for me.
[20:30] Dr. Carl Totton: Ultimately, we’ll be capable of. It takes a while, just like anything else. It took you a while to learn how to ride a bike, drive a car. Anything. And it’s the same thing. But once you’ve kind of groove that pathway into this deeper aspect of the self, it definitely becomes easier and easier. And you know what? You like it. Because you like it, you want to do it more. So so much better than Dorfins in my brain. Why do I not do this every day? But at first it does what? It’s a pain. It hurts. It hurts. I walk up a trepago. Oh my sore back. This is gonna hurt. We actually move into a state of what’s often called pure awareness, where a whole other world opens up inside of us. Busy doing those other things, there’s an entire dimension of experience that will miss. That will miss. That is in everyone. It’s in every human being. It’s in a we’re all part of the Tao. One spirit. And so the Tao being vast, having no beginning, having no end, existing on all dimensions throughout time and space, can you imagine? No, you can’t imagine. It’s beyond our imagination. How much there, how rich and how deep this experience of this domain actually contains. Okay. And so meditation, every time we do it, we’re allowed entry into another, another little corner of experience in that realm. And it is so rich and so nurturing that it’s like tasting pure honey years. Right. It’s so sweet. I love it. Okay. So I was reading a book and it was,
[22:30] Tod Perry: See, this is me. I read all these books, right? But the practice and the discipline of the practice, it alludes me. But it was a book called, Catching the Big Fish by a filmmaker, David Lynch. And he was saying that when he… Oh, he’s good. Yeah. When he started meditating, he realized as a creative person that the big fish were at the deeper levels, the big fish, the big ideas, that he And he was working and bringing into his art. He would meditate and the deeper he got, the bigger and more nurturing the fish were. Is what he said when he would dip into it. And I thought that was a wonderful metaphor for what I should strive for when attempting this
[23:20] Dr. Carl Totton: practice. So, what’s the best time to meditate is it in the morning at night? Anytime. Anytime. I mean, everybody’s, you know, their lives are different They have zugging things to do and they don’t have time and so the evening or night before they go to bed is a better time. You know, ultimately, I think we want to get to the point where meditation is not this separate experience where we have to, it’s only when we’re sitting down doing meditation that we are engaging in meditation. We would like meditation to just become part of our natural, normal state of being. Because that’s what meditation is It’s a state of expanded awareness, awareness of what? Awareness of what is? Well, what is? Well, you’ll know when you find it. Ah, that’s a nice way to go out on it. Do you have any more words on meditation? Just that don’t complicate it. It’s very simple. And our tendency, particularly here in the West, is to complicate things. And you’ll find books and books and books and things Written on how to meditate. And there’s all these different ways and so a seeker can get very easily confused. Yes. Because every many of the books say something very different. But if we remember that meditation is a natural state and it’s a state of immersion into what is. Because a lot of what we’re doing is an avoidance of not doing and meditation is definitely associated with not doing.
[25:00] Tod Perry: We’re doing less. Doing less. The minimal of us. Yeah. Because when you get to zero, where you’re not doing anything, then you can finally live and be everything. Is it kind of like if you look at an hourglass, right? You have the stuff at the top of the hourglass and they have that real thin waste, right? And then you have a different thing on the other side. Where we’re normally on the top of the hour
[25:30] Dr. Carl Totton: That there’s a whole other vessel of consciousness or whatever it is. Is it like that? At that moment we are fully in tune and in touch with the Tao and we are just filled with inspiration. It’s almost like a download from the field of consciousness, a field that we are part of but because we’re so busy, we’re not aware of it. Once we let go of those expectations and just immerse ourselves, In the Tao, the richness of that fills every moment. And at that moment, those questions, those eternal questions, who am I? Where did I come from? Why am I here? And where am I going? The answers become crystal clear. And that’s precious. You can’t buy that. Let’s move on to The chapter of the Tao Te Ching today. We’re gonna do chapter 3 of the Tao Te Ching. Who’s a meditative existence? Not just a practice, but a meditative existence as a prescription for living wisely. And so in chapter three, it’s very short, almost all of them are, is he says not exalting the gifted prevents quarrelling, not collecting treasures prevents stealing, not seeing desirable things, prevents confusion of the heart.
[27:30] Dr. Carl Totton: What’s he talking about here? And then he goes on and he says, the wise, therefore, rule by emptying hearts and stuffing bellies. By weakening ambitions and strengthening bones. If people lack knowledge and desire, then intellectuals will not try to interfere. If nothing is done, then all will be well. So this letting go of attachment from the heart or the mind while focusing on essentials like health, eating, right? right. allows things to kind of just settle into place and define their own innate rhythms. You know, every organism has a rhythm and the rhythm is trying to do what is trying to ensure survival. Through adaptation to create homeostasis, balance. And if we can do that then everything just flows and everything is beautiful and everything is fine. But look around. Is everything just flowing? Is everything just beautiful? And is everything just fine? No. And therefore things since so much is being done that is not in a course. Or with our inner natures, people aren’t feeling what they need. They’re feeling that what they’re doing is meaningless. Or has a meaning maybe to someone, some things, some outside entity but not to them. It’s not the heart’s desire. Then they wind up feeling dissatisfied. No matter how much money they’re making, you know, no matter how much of the material external rewards they may be getting, they’ll at a deep level.
[29:30] Dr. Carl Totton: If you ask them they will tell you something is missing. I feel like I’m just spending my wheels. And yeah I’m doing everything that everybody says I should be doing. And there’s nothing is gaining traction. It’s not, you know, it’s not amounting to anything besides you know, paying the rent. Yeah, and life is a lot more than going to work and paying your bills. Yes. I assure you. And so he says if people lack So we’ll not try to interfere. If nothing is done, then all will be well. Now the intellectuals trying to interfere. What is that relate to? Well, there are always people in every society who try to guide what people are doing by claiming that they know best. The intellectuals. The intellectuals. Often it’s politicians, critics, who are offering critiques about society. I’m sure people would call him a big thinker in a way but yet he’s constantly advising us to do what? Not think, right? Not think so much. And so here maybe the biggest thinker of them all is saying don’t think. And what was the very first thing out of his mouth in the Tao Te Ching? The Tao that can be spoke with. And is not the eternal Tao. Right. And what are our thoughts? Words. Words. Right. So the very first words out of his mouth are don’t trust this. Right. Don’t trust this. And don’t trust the authorities that are trying to tell you how to live your life. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Trying to push you one way or the other. Exactly. There’s so many levels of abstraction away from the immediacy of what he taught.
[31:30] Dr. Carl Totton: Person is experiencing. And every person has to be the arbiter of their own experience. Nobody else can tell you what you are experiencing, what you should be experiencing, what you’re thinking, what you should be thinking, what you’re doing, what you should be doing. Nobody has that authority to do that, unless you give it to them. Unless you give it to them. And unfortunately, if you look at the history of the world, what do we see? People are very willing to give up to the author. And then authorities are more than willing to try to take control through power and manipulation in order to attain more material goods. Or even worse power over others. Power over others so they can increase their gain of material goods. And so now look at the world. We’re in a crisis. We’re in environmental crisis. We’re in economic crises. We’re certainly in political crisis. It’s sad in many, many respects to see how far away we’ve gotten from this self-regulation, this homeostasis, this balance, we’re all organisms, especially us, getting our needs met and we’re filled and creative. It’s about creativity. You know, I tell everybody, the most important thing that you have is your imagination. Because think about it for me. And this fuels it, I feel. Yeah, I agree. Because if you look at human history, has not every advance come through imagination. Yes. Every single thing. We thought being the caves, right? We didn’t have imagination. If someone didn’t look out there and go, you know what? We could do
[33:30] Dr. Carl Totton: Fish was cooked. Yeah, right, yang. See, it allows us to creatively meet our needs in a fuller manner. And by unleashing greater creativity, you’re gonna unleash a greater more creative, you know, better society. Yes, for us. Yes, it’s a living. So I’m advocating for what? A new Renaissance. Yes. We need a new Renaissance. Right, yeah. A creative liberation. Yeah, the creative liberation of the human spirit I’ll take up a banner and wave it behind you. It’s like be free, be free. But to do that we have to claim and own our freedom. And too often society conspires to get us to subvert our freedom. To give up our freedom. I think it’s a natural state of having it subverted to begin with and then realizing it later in life. You know, not to say that I’ve come to some great point. I’ve completely gotten, you know, gotten, become liberated from all the structures around me. But I’m just saying, yeah, you do get to a certain point where you see the matrix. Yes. You know, you see the cage that you’re in and then you realize two things. One, number one, I’m in a cage. Somehow I’m restricting my life. I’m constricting and restricting my life. I’m in a cage. Now, where And most important, who has the key? And is it some force out there? Is it somebody else? Did I give somebody else the power to confine me? And therefore my liberation is dependent on them, some external authority or some intellectual or better and worse at the same time that I lock myself in this cage. And I’ve got the key and I’m not liberating myself.
[35:30] Tod Perry: Oh my goodness. What do I do to myself? I mean with the moment you see that, you go, oh no now I have a response to my self to enact that to fully unlock that cage. 100% responsibility to do that. That’s daunting. That is very scary. Scary for me, I think it’s probably scary for most people.
[36:00] Dr. Carl Totton: This writing is like the Tao Te Ching. Really is to ultimately give each human being courage that there are other people who have gone down this path, down this road and we know how difficult it is and we support you. You’re not crazy to think that you want to get out of your cage and be real. That’s great and we support that. Wonderful. You’re not alone. Yes. So do we have any takeaways for this week? Tickle stuff that people can get into before our show comes out next week. Things to think about. Well, I always like to give a practice, of course. Yes. Because practice makes perfect. Yes. And so a nice exercise is to simply notice what you have in your life that you personally are grateful for. Every day, every day you should get up and think. Hmm. What do I have to be great for people? For Rather than the lack of abundance. Because when you’re feeling lack, you tend to attract what you’re feeling. So you’ll just attract more lack. And number two, you’ll never be satisfied. You’ll never be satisfied. You have to choose to be satisfied. So just appreciation of the simple things, synthesizes us to the natural beauty of life as it is. Just as it is.
[38:00] Dr. Carl Totton: At the sunrise, how about the smile on a baby’s face? The gracefulness of a cloud, the sound of a court of music, the taste of good food. All of these little appreciations bring joy to life and went overlooked because we’re pursuing the big things, then life tends to lose its vitality and we wind up feeling frustrated and unsatisfied. Let go and let it be. Just let it be what it is.
[38:30] Tod Perry: You’re like it! Awesome, well, for this week it’s time to let it be and we’re gonna let this show be for right now and we’ll be back next week with more What’s This Tao All About and preview for next week’s show. Now we’ll just let you see what happens. We’ll talk you soon. Thank you.
[38:56] Tod Perry: To learn more about the show, check us out online at WhatsThisTao.com. Akan, Fall The Show on Twitter at What’s This Tao? Follow Tod Perry on Twitter at @TodAPerry. Now, don’t follow leaders and watch your parking readers.
[39:30] [Music]
Recently, Tod got stuck riding the bus to work, prompting a discussion on social status and how it relates to the Tao. Later, we get into a conversation on the Taoist principal of Yin and Yang. This week’s Tao Te Ching reading is from chapter 8.
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Episode Transcript
[00:00] [Music]
[00:30] Tod Perry: What’s This Tao All About? A lighthearted look at Taoism featuring Dr. Carl Totton and Tod Perry. Carl is the founder of the Taoist Institute in North Hollywood, California. Tod Perry knows a little about Taoism and it’s mainly here because he owns a few microphones. Now let’s learn: What’s This Tao All About? The other day, my boss at work, we have a very kind of small parking lot and he hit my car. I have like a Nissan Versa, I don’t know, it’s not. My car goes unnoticed in this world. You don’t look at it and go, alright, that’s terrible. How does he get to work every day? I had to go wild that guy spent $100,000 in the car. It moves through life unnoticed, my Nissan Versa. But it got hit so I had to keep it in the shop for like five days. So I live in Long Beach for the people listening, I live in Long Beach and my work is in Marina del Rey, which takes me about an hour and 10 minutes to get to work every day, which is very frustrating. So I had no car and I said, do you know what, my boss, he writes my paycheck, I’m not going to hit him up for getting me a rental or whatever. I’ll just take public transportation, which in LA, we don’t have the best public transportation system. So I would have my wife dropped me off at the Blue Line train, then I’d take it to the Green Line, and then I would take the bus to the office. So this would take an hour and 40 minutes every morning for me to get to work. So I get into work and I’ll talk to how’d you get into work today, you know, have your car. And I said, oh, you know, I took two trains and a bus and it’s like the looks you get in West Los Angeles saying, oh, I took the bus because it’s almost like a status thing where if you write the bus, And it’s like low class or you know, kind of thing and I thought I like not to brag but I like the fact I developed in myself and I think through the Tao reading about the Tao about how water, I think we’re gonna get to that chapter later in the book about how water resides in the lowest of places. And that water nourishes everything and that water is kind of without status and it asks for nothing from anything. And I thought that from the I’m trying to remove any sense of status from myself that I could again get to work where other people might have had a block and thinking, oh, that’s, you know, only poor people ride the bus in LA or whatever. And, uh, that to me, it gave me freedom and not having to abide by a status. And, like, I was like, I would love to as a human being exist as a statusless being that I could walk into a room and, uh, you know, if I was the richest man in the world no one would know, or if I was dirt poor no one would know. And it may try to not communicate my status to others and just kind of be myself. And but we, there’s so much pressure I feel on people to have that nice car or to have that, you know, not a functional car necessarily. And it’s almost like I look at it and I see the guy with the nice car and go, wow, that’s just just way too much effort to be trying to impress your status upon me. But I think that the Tao and understanding of that helps remove people from that kind of cycle
[04:07] Dr. Carl Totton: in a healthy way. You know, I think something that we were kind of speaking about earlier reminds me of that too. I already told you that often children and people, you know, so-called people who live a very simple life seem to be very content. Yeah, very happy with their existence. You know, the everyday they’re living pretty much to the full fullness. And yet they have by our standards wrote into a little, yeah, maybe nothing, you know, they don’t have a car, they don’t have a, you know, 60 inch TV. I’m sure they don’t have a computer. Yeah. But yet they’re content. Believe me, in my journeys and some of the things I’ve done, I’ve met people who are worth many, many, many millions of dollars. Yeah. I’ve met people who. Their films have so over a billion dollars worth of. theater tickets. Yeah. I’ve been some people that I’ve met and even taught and interacted with in one level or another. Having more and more and more does not lead to content. Yeah. Being contented in life. Yeah. It just means we have more stuff. They’ve been responsible for. That’s how it’s a game. What’s the saying, the movie Fight Club, what you own owns you? I was just as happy as I am now having a mortgage. Right, right. That’s why I said that the Taoist knows when they have enough. Enough is gonna vary from one person to the next, but I think a lot of our notions about what we should, quote, should, have, come from the media and it comes from media-fueled expectations about what the good life is. You know, and so if you’re watching TV and you’re watching, you know, the housewives of Orange County or the Housewives of New York or New Jersey or whatever it is, you’re going, oh, or the Keeping Up with the Kardashians or something. Oh, this is what happiness is, right? Yeah. Yeah, so I have a life like that. Yeah. You really think those people are really happy? No, that’s it. There’s really. And we play that. The media is kind of selling the lifestyle because people want to, you know, fantasize about that. But the same time the people are screaming at it, so the whole thing.
[07:03] Tod Perry: I don’t know if my wife watches like the real housewives and that’s, I say honey, you just watch people in expensive shoes scream at each other for a half hour. She’s like, oh, I love it. I don’t. I watch trashy TV all the time myself, but like that brand of it, I can’t. I’m like, this just annoying.
[07:22] Dr. Carl Totton: But, and so I think our expectations, again, it goes back to who are you? Who are you really? And what do you really need in order to feel that your life? Would you count your money? Would you go buy another car? What would you do? I guarantee you not one person will spend their last hours doing anything that has to do with acquiring more. Not one. Not one. Most people will want to be with the people who they love and care for the most. Some people will want to sit and meditate or pray to be in touch with their God or however they see what gives them spiritual comfort. And so if these are the things that really matter, shouldn’t we maybe create space for these things? Right, yeah.
[08:46] Tod Perry: in our lives, maybe? Yes. And that’s been so much time kind of like a rat in a cage just running around faster,
[08:53] Dr. Carl Totton: faster, kind of spinning our wheels. And I think that this notion of water in the Tao, like you said, everything’s on level. In fact, the low level tends to settle to we are what, 70, 75% water. I think our brains are more like 85% water. And so we need to learn, I think, how to allow this notion of how water adapts to any environment that it’s in. It naturally folds itself around in anything, any container that it’s in. Any obstacle, it just naturally goes around it over it under it. Yet we tend to try to fight for things. We tend to get some things in the way we want to just break it. We’re constantly striving for more and more. And yet when we get it, we’re still not happy. So we think that since I got this and I wasn’t happy, I must need more. We don’t get it. We don’t get it. Even though life is teaching us every second, that’s That’s not the way. It’s not the answer. And yet we don’t listen to our own experience. The Tao is, again, it’s just nagging little voice over your shoulder going, listen to yourself. You know, should you believe your own lying eyes? I was thinking the other day. There’s always all this talk about, you know, why in America we have so much kind of violence. Like if you go to Canada, you go there and your chances of being shot by somebody in Canada is, you know, on a 1-100 of.
[11:40] Tod Perry: You don’t have to say it, and it leads to a violent culture. I think you’re right. I think it’s part of it. I think it’s a multi-faceted complex issue. Yes violence in America. Violence in the world. Violence in humanity’s nature in fact. It’s the same violence as we could spend, I’m sure 100 shows talking about violence. Yeah, so just that. Yeah, yeah. I’ve got a lot to Part of it is that for sure. And in alignment with that is the fact that our society, Western society, especially in America, the disparity between the haves and the have-nots is increasing. It’s huge now. It used to be less. And a lot of these other countries that you mentioned, it’s much less. And in fact, there have been studies that show that the wider the disparity between the top and the bottom
[12:40] Dr. Carl Totton: The bigger that gets in any society, the more social dysfunctions you have. Violence, prisons, drugs, teenage pregnancy, high school dropouts. I mean you just list almost any kind of societal ill and the more there’s this disparity, meaning that there’s less harmony in a society. Because some people are having it all. And a very comfortable life and other people having to struggle and struggle and work harder and harder for less and less. This creates tensions and tensions result in something. Something has to happen. Something’s got to give. Something’s gonna blow up. And too often yang things are literally blowing up. And bodies are dropping and blood is being spilled. And so I think that remember the Taoist knows when they have enough.
[13:40] Tod Perry: And let me ask you something. Have you ever just given something to someone not with expecting nothing in return, maybe a child, maybe a homeless person, maybe someone sick or handicapped, ya know, just people who have less than you and you helped them out. I’m sure you have and what do that feel like? Oh, it feels wonderful. I almost don’t want it to feel good in a weird way because I feel like that then it becomes a selfish act. If I do something for somebody and then I feel good about it, I almost feel like if I do it it should be completely selfless and I should almost not like doing it because then it’s not a selfish act.
[14:18] Dr. Carl Totton: No, it’s okay. It’s okay because I’m just a guilty human being. Maybe so. No, I think the idea of giving without expecting anything in return is important. But the fact that you get just joy out of other people’s enjoyment and happiness, that to me is just being a good human being. Right. Okay. That’s okay. Empathy. Empathy. Empathy for others. And remember, I told you one of my Taoist teachers, that’s what he said. He said that by being curious, we want to know what other things, the other people are like. And when we find out, we can relate to them with empathy and compassion. And it cultivates it because your curiosity for your fellow man cultivates your empathy. Yes. And then once you know them, understand them and understand that really they’re very much just like we are. Right. They have the same blood. They have the same desires and thoughts and feelings and emotions. They’re much more like us then different. Then we can relate to them compassionately with empathy, whereas the more different we see people as the more violence there is in society. And if people are, if we really see them as being nothing like us at all, then we demonize them and we tend to want to kill them. Right, yeah, look around. Very easy, yeah. Very easy to kill something that you see as being not like you. Yes, definitely. Look around the world. Right,
[15:48] Tod Perry: What’s this Tao about is recorded at the Taoist Institute in North Hollywood, California. Check out the Taoist Institute.com. See there’s schedule of classes including Taoist meditation, kung fu and qigong. So do we have a really big topic here on the show I want to get to? That’s the Taoist concept of yin and yang. And again we could probably do 400 shows on yin and yang, correct? But this is a huge concept in the Tao. Now to back it up a little bit is the Tao, the first place where the concept of yin and yang stems from or was it in other Chinese thought?
[16:54] Dr. Carl Totton: There actually was an earlier school, literally called the yin and yang school in China, from which Tao borrowed. So some of these notions were floating around in various places and then they were consolidated within Taoism. And some later it became consolidated in the 5th century common era in China, Zen Buddhism, which is kind of a marriage of some traditional Buddhist notions with Taoist notions in China. And so ideas borrow from each other. And since we’re talking about universal laws, that should be seen as natural. That it would occur. Yeah, it just allowed to, you know, made up this stuff and say, oh that sounds good. And Taoism has always been seen as a philosophy and then later a spiritual religious system, which is in touch with nature. Taoists look at nature as we have said before and notice that the sun rises and then the sun falls. We have a daytime, we have a nighttime. We get up in the morning, wake up, we’re energized, we do things, but then we have to go back to see how we can get into the sun. Sleep, doing nothing, letting go, not doing, allows you to therefore be able to create the energy to do. And so these states are complementary. They aren’t really the opposite of each other. Now, language, right, wrong, good, bad, yes, no. Are language forces us often into these dichotomous states, which are not really true. That’s not true. We think they’re true, but and that’s therein lies the problem. The problem is between our years. We’re thinking. Because we’re thinking in very limited linguistic structure that forces us to choose between this and that. It’s almost the things we used to define the 10,000 things are incorrect. It imprisons us very often. It’s almost like if you could go back and recreate language. In the English language, rather language, maybe Chinese gets closer to these concepts than English possibilities. Because it’s using pictograms, right? Using images. Whereas we’re actually trying to use words that stand for other things. Words that mean something, Heels. You know, the father of General Semantics, Krasibsky wrote an amazing book called Science and Sanity in 1930s. Brilliant book, one of the best books I think of as really as being kind of the Western Tao Te Ching. Okay. Okay. Science and Sanity. Where he’s saying this very same thing about the limitations of language and how language forces us to separate yin and yang into these dichotomous categories that are actually not true And so coming from a Taoist perspective where we’re trying to harmonize yin and yang, I think requires us to pause, not do, wait, and at the same time to take in the entirety of things on levels that transcend and go beyond words and language. Language is, I mean, it’s our medium of communication, we, most of us, we don’t know telepathy, right? And can’t just communicate non-verbally, but yet, think about some of the more profound moments that you’ve had with people that you really love, perhaps your wife. I bet you don’t have to say a word very often, they have the most profound experience with her. If you have a decent relationship and I hope you do, I know that has to be true. Yes, yes. Look at each other’s eyes and smile and you said things that can’t be said. The subtlety and the inflection of how she says my name can mean a thousand, there’s Todd, and there’s Todd, and there’s a billion different ways to communicate so much. Exactly. Exactly. And I think that this notion of yin and yang, it gives us the freedom to be open to that level of experience. And also, I think equally as important, is that things happen in their own way and in their own time and for a reason that we don’t always see at the very beginning. And often we will label something as, oh, this is unpleasant, this is negative, this is bad. When actually that is just part of a cycle of something that is in the process of becoming, and in order for us to appreciate this, whatever it is, and its totality, we had to have this initial period of discomfort. for yeah unpleasantness Something that we might label as not good or even bad. When actually in the long run, it’s actually which is part of the natural unfolding of things as they are. And a lot depends on how you look at things too. Two different people, much less a million different people. We’ll look at the exact same thing and come to completely different conclusions about it. You know the old saying one man’s meat is another man’s poison.
[23:19] Tod Perry: And what’s good and nurturing for you might be very toxic and out of balance for somebody else. It’s like you’re talking about vitality and health. We’re off mic, we were discussing and the personal humors in one’s body, react to things, fortunately or unfortunately, health should be taken on a personal basis. I was thinking, what are the individual characteristics of yin and yang?
[23:49] Dr. Carl Totton: Yeah, some of the notions associated with yin are receiving passive, again, being receptive, being the night, being cool, more towards the feminine, if you will, the gentle, the being open to things. Yang, more the active, More of the dominant, more of the projected, more of the warmer, hotter, again more activity, the masculine way of approaching things, if you will. And much of the Tao is about, yin and yang, of course it’s about seeing these things as not as opposites of each other. For example, could you really just have men without having a woman? No. Without having some notion of heat in there somewhere? No. Does a day make any sense without a night, some kind of co-create each other. And in Chinese medicine that’s very much so. They actually will tell you that if you study Chinese medicine, then these things intermingle and co-create each other. And if you take one to the extreme, for example, if you get too hot, you get feverish. What happens to you after a while? You’re completely collapsed. You go right to the other side. You become total yin. You can’t even get out of bed. You need fluids. And then the other hand, if you don’t eat and you just have nothing but a weakness and you just become so destitute in terms of nutrition and water and everything else that you just start to kind of wither away, you’ll get a horrible fever, your whole body So So it’s a natural law of nature and we violate natural laws of nature to our peril.
[26:37] Tod Perry: It’s interesting that man is from nature, right? So man is natural or whatever, but can act outside of nature, right? Very much so. You know, like my dog is always doing something, you know, it’s weird that man’s inner nature can violate the basic rules of nature. Figure we just all work together, right?
[27:02] Dr. Carl Totton: And I think that’s what Lao Tzu was really getting at because he came up in a time where the Chinese were having so-called warring states, there was disharmony, war, violence, everywhere. And he’s going, you know, you guys are blowing it here. Look at this. This is the way farmers should relate to their fields. This is the way emperors should relate to their constituency, you know, by not doing, by not imposing, by being almost invisible. In fact, that was the best leader, was the one who was the most invisible, but yet everything got taken care of, right?
[27:41] Tod Perry: Right, yeah, yeah. You know, there was nothing to fight against.
[27:45] Dr. Carl Totton: And when you’re not in the fight against, then you can just meet your needs. Right. Right. And so yin and yang, I think is a it’s a way for us to kind of check in with ourselves every day and say, where is the balance and harmony in my life? Am I overdoing something, am I leaving something important out? Am I missing something? And if I’m putting in X amount of energy over here, in order to
[29:15] Dr. Carl Totton: You have one side and the other. There’s no wholeness there. And when there’s no wholeness there’s no harmony. There’s by definition there’s disharmony. And when you have disharmony you have problems. You have problems. You have to have your problem. You have to have your problem. You have to have your problem. You have problems. You
[29:45] Tod Perry: The Supreme Good is like water, which nourishes all things without trying to. It flows to low places loathed by all men. Therefore, it is like the Tao. Live in accordance with the nature of things, and dwelling, be close to the land. In meditation, go deep to the hearts. In dealing with others, be gentle and kind. Stand by your word, govern with equity, be timely in choosing the right moment, one who lives in accordance with nature, does not go against the way of things. He moves in harmony with the present moment, always knowing the And the truth of just what to do. The highest good is like water. Water gives life to the 10,000 things and does not strive. It flows in places men reject and so is like the Tao. Very humble. And dwelling be close to the land. In meditation go deep in the heart. In dealing with others be gentle and kind. In speech, be true. In ruling, be just. And business be competent. In action, watch the timing. No fight, no blame. Wow. So the highest good is like water. So is that that’s. There’s an element of that I was talking about status earlier. And it’s almost like, you know, put on some robes and walk the earth, right?
[32:09] Dr. Carl Totton: But everything has to also seek its own nature and everything on this we’re a water planet, right? Yeah. We’re water planet. But as that chapter states, the water doesn’t blame, it doesn’t judge. It gives everything exactly what it needs. The acorn needs a certain amount in type of water. The. The huge oak tree needed something else. The birds and the bees and the cats and the dogs, they needed that water as well. Yeah. Right. So everything sort. Everything kind of. Went to this well. This. Common Source and Drink, it’s full and received exactly what it needed. But yet every single thing became its own unique self. Right, yeah. But yet it came from the same source. But yet everything became completely different and unique and creative. Isn’t that interesting? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Isn’t that fascinating. The Tao is like that. We should be like that. If we were like water, we would be more like that. And so this is a I think it’s a reminder because we are water and we have to drink water, you can get by without food and you can buy a lot of things but you cannot live without water. You cannot. You will wither up and dry up and die soon if you don’t have water. And if you don’t have what? What comes out of this interaction? Air, right? Air, oxygen, right? Even quicker you’ll die.
[34:26] Dr. Carl Totton: What is yin and what is yang? Well, sun is definitely yang because it’s hot, right? Right. And it’s penetrating. Yeah. And it’s the heat. And water, since it’s in its natural state, it’s cool, right? It’s soft, it’s nurturing, it’s buoyant and enveloping, right? It’s very yin. Okay. It’s like the mother. It’s the mother. And the sun Voila, we have life, we have life, we have life. And we need, and that energy of this yang energy and this yin energy through that dynamic balance relationship, all things can move to their fullest nature. Everything can become what they are. And that is the ultimate way of the Tao, everything becomes what it is. And the action of the Tao is to return.
[35:53] Tod Perry: We have to be in harmony. I think we need to dwell on the land. Now, in modern society, what does that mean?
[36:04] Dr. Carl Totton: I tell all my students and all my clients that they have to be in harmony. I tell them to be in harmony. I tell them They need to do this. They need to take time out and return to the land. Because they’re literally are things, energies that you cannot get any other way. You know, Chinese, the Taoist and Chinese medicine, they spend a lot of time talking about chi, about energy. And there is an energy that comes out of the earth and being close to the earth, literally having your feet on the earth that you really can’t get any other way. And if you don’t get that, then our body has to do what? It has to make up for it somehow, often by leaching something from someplace else, if not really supposed to. And so in dwelling, be close to the land, follow nature. I think it’s another way of saying being in harmony with nature, Taoism being a nature philosophical system. And and Lao Tzu and the yin-yang school before him, all the ancient Taoists looked at water, looked at wind looked at the sun. And he said that the birds looked at the seasons of life, right? Spring, summer, winter. They saw these natural patterns coming out of the earth, out of the land. And they felt that if we could live in harmony with that, then we would also reach our fullest inner nature as well. Right. Right. And you’d have less conflict. Yeah. And look at most of the conflicts around the world. Doesn’t have something to do with people wanting to That’s what’s happening. You’re right. We’re depleting the purity of the land, the water, the air, the ozone.
[38:20] Tod Perry: When you move out of harmony with nature, you lead towards your own destruction. Ultimately, it’s stupid because you’re killing yourself. But we’re doing a lot of people don’t realize that. I know. I know. So it boggles my mind that we don’t realize that, yeah, you made another billion dollars, but you just took 100 years off of our life span. Right. Yeah. the Earth’s life. So at the end of the day, what’s it worth? What’s it worth? What was your extra billion dollars worth? Nothing. I think that’s a good place to wrap up today.
[39:01] Dr. Carl Totton: The Tao is about life and death, life and death. And by living in harmony with nature, we can live a full life and have a death that comes when it was supposed to come, and not because we lived out of harmony with nature and violated the law, the natural law, and wound up killing ourselves. Much less our planet.
[39:28] Tod Perry: Yeah. Well, thank you. Dr. Carl Totton. Thank you, thank you. And we’ll see you guys on show four. All right. To learn more about the show, check us out online at whatsthistao.com. Follow Tod Perry on Twitter at @TodAPerry. Now, don’t follow leaders and watch your parking meters. Wow. Really? Bye.
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