Episode 8 – Chapters 13 and 33

Tod’s smart phone is driving him nuts so he asks Dr. Carl how to find balance in a world ruled by technology. After missing a chapter last week, Dr. Carl and Tod cover chapter 13 of the Tao Te Ching, a verse dealing with ego. They finish the show with a discussion on chapter 33 that deals with enlightenment, waking up, and embracing change.

Subscribe to What’s This Tao All About? on iTunes >>

Episode Transcript

[Tod Perry]

Finding balance in a world of smartphones

Three, two, one, and hello everybody and welcome back to What’s This Tao All About? Dr. Carl Totton is here with me, the great Sijo, and my name is Tod Perry. And getting into this, I find that my phone, I feel like, is a barrier between me and existing peacefully. But I need the phone.

It’s a weird thing. Without the phone, my life would be kind of chaotic in a certain way because everything in life is now set up around the phone. I have to get my directions there.

When someone is going to come over to my house, they call me on the phone right before that or they text me or I have to be connected with it or else that’s suffering and misery in a way. But also having it is suffering and misery in another way. I was sitting there and I set the timer down when I meditate and I have the phone right there with the timer and then what do I get?

Oh, it’s an instant message. Now I’m out of it. I’m trying to meditate.

And then it’s and it’s a text and it’s an email. And I started trying to be conscious of it. And so one day I’m like letting it charge.

I put it in the other room and I set it up with the charger. I’m like, whatever. I’m watching TV with my wife.

We’re just going to hang out. It’s a weird thing that now the phone is so distracting that watching TV together is quality time. I was thinking about that when you said it.

[Carl Totton]

Really, it’s true.

[Tod Perry]

And so I was like, I’m not going to ruin my good time with my wife sitting here watching a baseball game or something. So I’m going to have the phone in the other room and then it is in the other room and I go, oh, you know, it’s like Pavlov. You know, I’ve got to grab the phone.

What could that be? It’s probably just nonsense, you know. But it is true on the other side of those text message are people and relationships.

And it’s not just a device, an electronic device barking at me. It is life kind of in its own way too. It’s my friend saying, hey, how’s it going?

It’s all this. It’s an email from my professional life. It’s, you know, it’s so many things.

And I don’t know how to compartmentalize all that with at the same time trying to be peaceful and not reactive and all that. I think it’s a very tough needle to thread.

[Carl Totton]

Yes. And, you know, our electronic devices, our so-called smartphones, it’s become kind of like a ball and chain.

[Tod Perry]

And someone’s listening to this show right now on one thing. Exactly.

[Carl Totton]

We’re tethered to this thing that in one hand was supposed to do what? Free up our time, right? Liberate us.

Liberate us. But yet it’s become our lord and master. Yes.

It’s how we process reality. Like you said, it’s how we connect. It’s how we relate.

What did we do 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 100 years ago, 200 years ago? How did we manage to get through life without this thing? We did fine.

Yet we did. And that’s why sometimes, you know, when people get too frantic and too obsessed, I actually recommend they take an e-fast, an electronic fast, a digital fast, if you will. And no electronics.

No, instead, take your wife by the hand and go walk to the marina.

[Tod Perry]

Yes.

[Carl Totton]

And look at the boats and watch the waves. And get on one of those boats and go over to Catalina Island and walk in the back country there looking at the buffalo and watching the eagles fly over your head. Right.

You know, because there’s things we get from that that we’ll never get out of our smartphones. Oh, I know. And so I think that, again, like everything, it’s about balance.

It’s all about balance. But we’ve gone way, I think, out of balance. With the phone, yeah.

With the phones and all the other electronic devices, you know, that really act as a mediating variable, I think, between us and reality. Because this has become the way that most of us actually connect with, quote, reality.

[Tod Perry]

I was watching the other day, there was, like, I guess, you know, the Pope was in town. So there’s all these people, and the Pope is driving by everyone. And to certain people, you know, the Pope is this, you know, magnificent person sent from God.

And to other people, he’s, you know, a guy who’s, you know, in a robe. And, you know, but for the people who went out there to see the Pope, and this was a meaningful experience, they all had the phone out. But every single human being was watching the Pope through the phone.

And I, just there. Yes. Just with their heart.

Yes. Having them, they had to capture it. They had to control the moment.

Yes. It became going hunting for the moment versus actually experiencing it. Or, it was funny, the other day, this sounds odd, but I actually agreed with it.

And it was Justin Bieber. Of all people. Yes.

I’m going to come on the Daoist show and say, Justin Bieber said something profound the other day. You can hang me. And he was saying, he was like, you know, he was being very arrogant or whatever.

And he was saying, you know, about how people approach him all the time. But he said, when you come up to me with your phone, do you really want to have a moment with me? Or are you just taking my photo so you can share it on Facebook and say I met Justin Bieber?

And I thought, that’s actually. That’s correct. He’s right.

I was like, that’s profound. Are you coming up to me to engage with me and say hello? How are you?

Check in, have a moment? Or are you just, you know, that’s it? And I could see where that would be, even if you’re Justin Bieber and empty experience.

[Carl Totton]

Yes. Look, I think we’ve learned that that’s the way to live our lives. Right?

If it isn’t documented and recorded, it’s not real. It didn’t really happen. Right.

Which is why we see all these problems with police brutality and all those things. Again, if it wasn’t recorded. We wouldn’t know.

It didn’t happen. Right? It’s just denied.

[Tod Perry]

And so. So having that is a wonderful thing because now we can hold our leaders and those in power accountable because everybody’s been deputized with this phone, which is fantastic.

[Carl Totton]

Yeah. But isn’t it a shame that we’ve gotten to that point in society, in our lives? You know, we’re relying on that rather than on our goodwill to do the right thing.

Right. You know, that should be our motivating factor. What’s the right thing here?

What’s the humane thing to do in this situation? Right? How can I help myself and everyone I’m interacting with, you know, really come to their fullness, come to their best, second by second, moment by moment?

That should be our motivation.

[Tod Perry]

Well, you know what? Okay. That’s going to dovetail in nicely.

I guess today, because last show, we didn’t get to it. We didn’t get to it. So now we’re going to do a double header for Chapters of the Tao Te CHing.

What’s Chapter 13 of the Tao Te Ching about?

And we’re going to do, I guess, Chapter 13. Yes. Is the first one here.

Yes. And see, now I’m using my phone right now for notes. This is great.

[Carl Totton]

I have my notes for the show on the phone.

[Tod Perry]

I love you, phone. But now there’s five text messages that people wanted. I go to grab a phone with my notes, and my sister emailed me about, texted me about football today.

I’m like, no, not right now.

[Carl Totton]

Be in the moment. You’re doing the Dao show. And Facebook, notifications, and all sorts of things.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. Well, Chapter 13 of the Dao De Jing, I think, is a very interesting chapter because it talks about accepting things without being defensive, really.

In fact, I’ll read. It’s short, like most of them are.

[Tod Perry]

That’s the joy. They’re short, but there’s so much.

[Carl Totton]

Yeah. Not like reading chapters of the Bible where you can go on and on, right? Right, yeah.

Now, these are about a page, less than a page, a quarter of a page in some cases like this one. It begins with, accept disgrace willingly. Accept misfortune as the human condition.

What do you mean by accept disgrace willingly? Accept being unimportant. Do not be concerned with loss or gain.

This is called accepting disgrace willingly. What do you mean by accept misfortune as the human condition? Misfortune comes from having a body.

Without a body, how could there be misfortune? Surrender yourself humbly. Then, you can be trusted to care for all things.

Love the world as your own self. Then, you can truly care for all things.

[Tod Perry]

I feel like this dovetails nicely into the conversation we had on the last show about the unity conscious you were talking about.

[Carl Totton]

Yes, what a beautiful chapter.

[Tod Perry]

This one, they talk about the self. They’re talking a lot about the ego, I imagine.

[Carl Totton]

It’s interesting that Lao Tzu actually asks questions. He makes a statement, then he asks a question about it. Then, he answers the question that he just asked.

That’s really special. I really love this chapter. He says, accept disgrace willingly and accept being unimportant.

Again, you were talking about the ego. I think he’s counseling us to understand some fundamental truths about life. For one thing, it goes back to yin and yang as almost everything does.

Life comes in cycles. The tide rises and then it falls. The crops are planted and then they’re picked.

Then, it goes back to nothing. We have to start all over again. Everything in this universe seems to follow that pattern.

Yet, if we attempt to hold on to things like self-importance or I’m right, or it’s my way or the highway, then we are certainly going to be condemned to misfortune because none of those things are impermanent. None of those things are permanent. They’re all impermanent.

If we’re trying to grasp and hold on to something, particularly something as fragile as self-importance, which is dependent on what? Is it dependent on what you think about yourself or what other people think about you? What control do you have of what other people think of you?

Zero. Exactly. You will inevitably be disappointed.

[Tod Perry]

Pride goeth before the fall, I believe they say.

[Carl Totton]

Yes.

[Tod Perry]

You have this thing where it’s almost like, again, the idea of clinging to permanence and clinging on to how important you are because there are some people that are important in one room, but not important in another.

[Carl Totton]

Absolutely.

[Tod Perry]

It was interesting. When I was in India, I went to a temple where there’s a bunch of people that were making food for the poor and out of this temple, they fed 1200 people a day and there was a back room where people sat and they patted out like naan bread, right? And there are a couple of people making another dish in the other side of the room and the guy who gave me the tour said, you know, there’s people who come here who are some of the richest people in India and they come into this room and they sit and they pat out the naan bread and you know what, there might be a guy around him that is not as rich or as powerful that may be better at it, at making the bread and in this back room, the man suddenly, out of context, is not that important, but he’s giving and it’s all that.

You know what I’m saying? So to carry oneself through changing rooms, through changing geographic locations, through changing context, holding oneself in that high esteem, A, that person is going to miss out on what they can learn in that situation or whatever, but through being, I guess to be humble, and correct me if I’m wrong, to be humble is to be able to be malleable and to learn.

[Carl Totton]

Yeah, I think being humble means, number one, recognizing our common humanity, that we’re nothing special in the sense of being attached to self-importance because we’re all breathing the same air. We all have the same blood flowing through our veins. We all have to eat, sleep, get rest, have activity, take care of our health.

We’re all so much more similar than we are different. So where’s the space for this exaggerated self-importance and all of that? They say we’re all born alone and we will die alone.

That is the great leveler. Right. And so we’re all in the same boat.

We’re all in the same boat. And so I think that understanding that life, understandably, is going to have ups and downs and that the most, the wisest way to appreciate that is to get to the point where when we’re in the down phase, we say, you know, this too shall pass. And when things are going our way, this too shall pass.

[Tod Perry]

There was a, I was reading up on somebody’s thoughts of the chapter 13, so this is not my own, but there was a point that the observer took out of it and it was, if I have no self, right, if I have no ego, then what misfortune do I have? Actually, by eliminating that part of you that is the ego, which is the part of you that attaches to things. The part that wants to be right.

Yes. The part that says, woe is me, as well. That if, you know, sometimes, you know, if someone does something wrong unto me, if I’m looking at that from an ego conscious, I take it personally, right?

If I’m looking at it from an egoless, a desireless, we go back, I don’t know where my mind is, I go back to that same thing from the chapter one. Chapter one. And I just think, well, that’s that guy just doing his dance.

That’s him just being him right there. I just happen to be in front of him, and the misfortune was cast my way. If I’m looking at that egotistically, oh, I’ll get him something bad happens.

And I believe there’s something in here about not having revenge or I’m sure that might, maybe that’s in the next chapter. I think maybe that’s in 57 actually. Right.

The next one we’re going to do. Oops, spoiler alert.

[Carl Totton]

But he does advise about having this sense of community in this chapter, you know, about attending to the general welfare as opposed to just our own. Remember, he says, love the world as your own self. Then you can truly care for all things.

That’s altruism, isn’t it? The good of all elevates the all, including you.

[Tod Perry]

It’s like being like water. We were saying that water flows down and nourishes everything regardless of its position.

[Carl Totton]

Yeah. And that’s why I think that self-care and caring for others, if you’re looking at it from this perspective, is all the same thing. It’s all the same thing.

The greater good comes to those who contribute to the greater good.

[Tod Perry]

Yeah.

[Carl Totton]

Yeah. And if we’re only trying to take out our selfish part of it while the rest of the world suffers. Remember, we’re all in this together and everyone’s suffering is ultimately part of my suffering too.

[Tod Perry]

Right.

[Carl Totton]

And it tends to come from this sense of excessive pride and greediness. Now, it is impossible for most human beings to not have an ego, not have a self. I don’t think it’s possible.

I’m not even sure that’s a good thing here in a 3D universe.

[Tod Perry]

Yeah. You know, it’s funny. Sorry to cut you off, but I was just reading.

I had written a note down that applied exactly to that. And it was a hot take on this, to use a sports term, that the Lao Tzu doesn’t want us to eliminate the ego, but focus on yourself only enough that you don’t neglect the world. So, we’re talking about that balance again.

The Tao isn’t about… Buddhism is maybe about destroy your ego, destroy all attachment, all this. And the Tao has a softer hand and understands that the ego is there.

And it’s again about harmonizing and that balance and not going out of whack because when you go out of balance, that’s when everything falls apart.

[Carl Totton]

Yes. And I think it’s not that the ego or the self is the enemy because that’s largely who we are. It’s the attachment to that.

The wanting to always be correct, particularly to be right at the expense of others being wrong, when actually we’re all in this together. And the unique part of your ego and yourself is what can you add that is uniquely and creatively your own. That is really flowering of the self that also is going to elevate the greater good.

Because if you come up with something that’s really unique and practical and important and leads the world forward, then not only are you going to benefit, we’re all going to benefit. And so I really encourage everybody to discover your own unique truths and fruits and share that with the world because that’s going to elevate all of us. Because that’s your Tao.

[Tod Perry]

That’s your uniqueness. So it’s like… I guess does the balance come in appreciating the uniqueness and its ability to contribute to the world around you and how all of that kind of lines up linear.

Not appreciate your uniqueness, dominate everybody that comes in your way and destroy them.

[Carl Totton]

Remember, we don’t want to commit that… I was talking about the last show, that sin of omission where you leave out your contribution to the greater good and then because of that imbalance reigns and that harms all of us. Whereas if you contributed these unique creative ideas that we don’t know where they come from, but we know it’s coming through you.

Maybe it’s not even coming from you, but it’s definitely coming through you. It’s almost like you’re channeling it. Because let me ask you something.

Do you know what your next thought is going to be? No, I don’t. Does any human being know what their next thought…

See, so we don’t know where these things are coming from. So it’s coming through us. We’re kind of like the receiver and then the projector of it.

But we really don’t know where it’s coming from. But we have to refine our capacity to receive it wherever it’s coming from, from our subconscious, from the collective unconscious as Jung talked about. It’s coming from somewhere, but since each person is a very unique individual, as it comes out of you will be different than it comes out of the next person or me.

[Tod Perry]

Or how it’s communicated.

[Carl Totton]

But it’s like it turns into a beautiful stew. What’s better than a stew, right? Where you have all these different ingredients and everything has its own special taste.

But when you put it together in a pot, it’s immaculate.

[Tod Perry]

Immaculate. And that’s almost in a way, if you think about the collective subconscious and those kind of ideas that flow through that everybody catches and it comes from that ether or whatever, that that feels suspiciously like the Tao.

[Carl Totton]

Yes, yes. And Carl Jung obviously studied the Tao. He even wrote about it in the I Ching, another famous Taoist text.

Oh yeah.

[Tod Perry]

Is the I Ching, is that Taoist or is that…

[Carl Totton]

Oh, well, it’s a lot of things. I mean, Confucius studied it. All Taoists study it.

I’m sure Buddhists study it. Everybody studies the book of the E because that is the book of change.

[Tod Perry]

Yes, you have to understand that to know the Tao. Absolutely, absolutely. So can we move on actually?

I think we had down, I’m sorry, not 57, but chapter 33. Oh wait, we just did 13. 57 too, but later.

Okay. Just trying to get this going. Chapter 33 of the Tao, the I Ching.

What’s Chapter 33 of the Tao Te Ching about?

[Carl Totton]

Ah, yes. Yet another interesting chapter. You know, they’re all interesting, but some of them I think have particular relevance to what we’re discussing right now.

This is one of the shortest chapters, in fact, of the Tao Te Ching and has one of the most prevalent quotations ever from the Tao Te Ching. Oh, nice. Which is the very first two lines.

Everybody has heard this. Knowing others is wisdom. Knowing the self is enlightenment.

Mastering others requires force. Mastering the self needs strength. He who knows he has enough is rich.

Perseverance is a sign of willpower. He who stays where he is endures. To die, but not to perish, is to be eternally present.

[Tod Perry]

So to know one’s self is enlightenment. Right? And what was the, to know others is wisdom, to know one’s self is enlightenment, because I guess obviously the more you know about yourself, the more you’ll understand the man next to you.

[Carl Totton]

And what is enlightenment? Is it some special state that only the saints and people like Lao Tzu or the Buddha or perhaps Jesus Christ attain? What is enlightenment?

You know, I’ve done a lot of thinking about this. And I’ve spoken with many of my teachers about this. Spoke with one of my teachers recently about this.

And he said, you know what enlightenment really is? He said, it’s just waking up. It’s just waking up.

[Tod Perry]

The Buddha was the guy who woke up?

[Carl Totton]

Yeah, the enlightened one, the awakened one, is what the Buddha actually means. It’s a person who just woke up out of our collective dream one day. And we’ve been talking about all the things that keep us in a trance state.

Smartphones, the television, our electronic and digital devices have a way of kind of seducing us into kind of a trance state. The media in general is trying to entrance us to either buy something or vote for someone. You know, all things that may have absolutely little or nothing to do with who we are and our own individual creative unfolding.

So a person who awakes simultaneously, I think does two things. One, they see all the shackles. They instantly see all the ways that they have been attempting to be dominated, domineering, controlled, controlling.

[Tod Perry]

Or ways that they’ve shackled themselves.

[Carl Totton]

They see it from both sides. How they’ve shackled themselves, how they’ve allowed themselves to be shackled. How they put themselves in a prison.

But now, guess what? They found that they had the key in their pocket all along. Right, yeah, yeah.

And awakening is just understanding that, reaching for the key and opening the cage and walking out. And then looking around and seeing all these other people, millions of them, walking around in their own cage. And going, friends, friends, A, have you noticed that you’re in a cage?

And B, guess who has the key? You do! Wake up!

Wake up!

[Tod Perry]

Right.

[Carl Totton]

And so, all people who awaken, then their mission is to help others do the same thing.

[Tod Perry]

It’s like the Bodhisattva.

[Carl Totton]

Yes.

[Tod Perry]

Was the guy on the trail.

[Carl Totton]

Yes, in fact, right behind you is a picture of Kuan Yin. The Bodhisattva of compassion and mercy in Buddhism, as a matter of fact.

[Tod Perry]

Ah. Was it Milarepa that was the, was previously a kind of debaucherous human being and then kind of woke up and then spent the whole life trying to help others?

[Carl Totton]

Yes.

[Tod Perry]

Was it Milarepa?

[Carl Totton]

Yes. And so, it’s nothing special and yet it’s the most special and powerful thing that we could possibly do. Is become enlightened and wake up.

It’s just to wake up. Because then you can no longer be manipulated. You have no interest in manipulating others.

Instead, you’re in the flow of these ups and downs, these yins and yangs. And your mission is to go with that flow and to assist others in their journey of doing the same. Right.

Because doing so allows each person to rise to their fullness, to become this creative, uniquely contributing individual. And when enough people do that, voila, what happens to the world as a whole? A renaissance.

We’re going to have a rising tide of consciousness. We have a rising tide of consciousness. And that is so sustaining.

It feels so natural. It feels so wonderful. Because then you don’t feel desperate all the time.

You know, I heard a study last week where they asked thousands of Americans what was their number one regret. And you know what it was? That they worry too much.

The number one regret was that we worry too much. And what does worry accomplish?

[Tod Perry]

Nothing. And the reason we worry is because we’re attached to things we cannot control. Exactly.

If it was something we could control, then we wouldn’t worry about it. You know what I’m saying? It’s the thing that I worry about, oh no, oh no.

My wife’s going to freak out about something, right? That I can’t control. I can’t control her.

I can’t control the weather. I can’t control traffic. Oh, I’m going to come see Dr. Carl. Oh, I hope the five freeway.

[Carl Totton]

But what can I do? Nothing. Nothing, except go with the flow.

And then if it’s meant to happen, it will. When it’s meant to happen, it will happen. The way it’s meant to happen, it will.

Remember, as we discussed just a bit ago, you don’t even know what your next thought is going to be. So what’s this control that we’re obsessing about? We don’t even know what our next thought is going to be.

So how much control do we really have? Very little. What we do have is patterns.

Human beings get stuck into response patterns. We are creatures of habit. And so what you tended to do yesterday, last week, last year, five years ago, ten years ago, you’re going to probably tend to do very similar types of patterns because now it’s become a habit.

And so that becomes another part of the prison that we’re in.

[Tod Perry]

That we have to wake up from.

[Carl Totton]

Because what did the Taoist always say? What’s the only constant? Change.

We’re changing. Your brain is literally, your neurochemistry is changing. Your physiology is changing.

Your biology. Everything about you, every second is in a constant state of flux. But yet we cling to the illusion that we’re the same.

That this is the same brain, the same Tod, the same Carl that was here yesterday. When actually there are a lot of things different about us. But our memory is clinging to the illusion of sameness.

And as we attempt to then recreate that sameness, we’re missing the moment. We’re not being here fully present in the now. Again, we’re missing this constant ongoing flux of change.

And to that extent, we can’t fully contribute what we have. Because we’re trying to be back there when the moment is calling for us to be right here now.

[Tod Perry]

And I find that personally, as I get older and grow older, there are obviously ways which I’ve been resistant to change. Because sometimes you have your opinions, you have your mindsets, you have ways that you thought the world worked, where that maybe the more you learn, the more you realize you were wrong. And to sit there and go, you know what?

I’m going to reverse my opinion on that or the other. And inside, it’s the cognitive dissonance. And you go, why am I attached to that?

I should be humble and just go, I was wrong about that. But then, oh, other people, I’m going to admit to others I was wrong. Oh, how terrible that would be.

Then what am I? But it’s just because you’re not realizing that what are you? You’re somebody who changes and has to keep changing.

Yes. And evolving, or else you’re going to be one very bitter person because they have not adapted any of their thoughts. Yes.

[Carl Totton]

And see, and that word you just said is very important, which is adaptation. You look at life for the last million years. What is life in the big picture all about, if not being able to adapt and adjust to the needs of your environment?

[Tod Perry]

That’s the 100% thing. Everything that has survived and continues is that which has evolved.

[Carl Totton]

Exactly.

[Tod Perry]

And that that doesn’t, goodbye.

[Carl Totton]

It’s extinct. It goes away, yes. It dies, it’s extinct because it cannot adapt to constant change.

And so at a deep level, we have to know this.

[Tod Perry]

Right.

[Carl Totton]

But we fight against it. But we’re fighting it all the time. We’re fighting ourselves.

[Tod Perry]

It’s an ego. We’re fighting the ego.

[Carl Totton]

And that is the state of being asleep, in trance, the opposite of being awake and big. And so enlightenment is simply waking up and realizing all of that, realizing what we have learned over the last million years of evolution. I mean, it should be so imprinted in our DNA and genes by now.

But somehow because of our brain, which is bipolar, right? Our brains are split into this and that and right and wrong. And we want to be right, right?

That’s the ego, right? Clinging to the illusion of the self as this entity that always needs to be right, having my way. So we’ve seduced ourselves because we think we’re so clever into fighting our ultimate nature, which is a being who is in touch with the flow, the ebb and flow of this and that, of up and down, of front and back, of in and out, of night and day.

There’s no way to avoid that. But yet we’re trying to avoid it by clinging to things as we think they, quote, should be. Not how they are.

[Tod Perry]

Rather than how they are. You know, I think the interesting thing, I can’t think, and please tell me if I’m wrong, or listeners, comment on the website. Tell me if I’m wrong or tweet me at whatsthisdao.

I think the interesting thing is a true Taoist, no one’s ever going to go, well, they’re set in their ways. Or like I think many people who adapt to most philosophies or religions are it’s all about being set in your ways. It’s about being rigid with those words and rigid with those rules.

Following the rules. And rigid with that understanding. The Tao is almost, it’s antithetical to that because it’s saying change.

Be constantly moving. Don’t paint yourself into a corner. Keep moving.

Accept the fact that things are evolving. And it’s saying all these wonderful things which are actually the opposite of do this, do that, do this.

[Carl Totton]

And it’s like Lao Tzu says in this chapter, he who knows he has enough is rich. Is rich. Because it’s, I remember I think one of our early shows, I said, you know, remember when you were making $5,000 a year, you were fine.

Taoist knows what’s enough. And then when you made $10, and then when you made $20, and $30, and $50, and $100, whatever. You know, but yet, now, if you only made $5,000 a year, you’d be.

[Tod Perry]

I’d be running around like my hair’s on fire.

[Carl Totton]

I’d be robbing a liquor store. I would be out of balance. I’d be out of balance.

Yet when you were making $5,000 or $10,000, somehow you managed. You managed to get by. Ramen.

And so now we’ve gotten to the position where a lot of people, no amount is enough, right? If they have 10 million, they want 20. If they have 100 million, they want 200 million.

There’s never enough. And when you get into this point where there’s never enough, you know what that means? You’re never satisfied.

And if you’re never satisfied, then you are in a constant state of disequilibrium. There’s no harmony in you. And if there’s no harmony, one of the unfortunate things that we as human beings often attempt to do is to take what’s bad or out of balance inside of us and then project it onto the world and to other people.

And so then we see this disharmony everywhere. And then what do we try to do?

[Tod Perry]

Stamp it out.

[Carl Totton]

Stamp it out. Kill it. Get rid of it.

Control it. Manipulate it. And yet it’s us.

We’ve done it to ourselves. You know, one of my teachers, one of the most…

[Tod Perry]

Creating straw dogs.

[Carl Totton]

One of the most profound things one of my teachers ever said to me is this. He said, have you ever noticed that whenever there’s a problem, you’re always there? Isn’t that great?

Life is an inside job. Life is an inside job. We’re seeing…

It’s almost like we’re living in this massive holographic universe, which actually the physicists say we are. We’re creating these structures, these things that are out of nothing, these illusions, and then reacting to them as if they’re real. Yeah.

And then wondering why we’re dissatisfied as we cling to these illusionary processes and objects and relationships and states of being and states of ego. And we wonder why it’s so dissatisfying.

[Tod Perry]

Yeah.

[Carl Totton]

And then we keep doing… We figure, well, if that didn’t satisfy me, what must be the problem? I must have to do it more or harder.

I’ll just keep striving and then maybe at some point I’ll finally feel okay. Well, sorry, folks. There’s no okay corral out there if that’s the way you’re going to try to get there.

[Tod Perry]

It’s to wake up.

[Carl Totton]

Yeah, it’s to wake up and it’s not about struggling. But yet we have defined it as such. We’ve defined it as such.

And that’s our… That’s our dilemma as human beings.

[Tod Perry]

And with that we cue the music. I’d like to thank Sijo for your wisdom on today’s show.

Thank you. We will be back next week with the next episode of What’s This Tao All About? What’s This Tao All About?